Ross Barkley

[bluestevon]

He's playing too conservatively for me.

He did need to learn to keep it simple at times, that's for sure. But I see a player that doesn't do what comes natural anymore and that is to get on the ball and try and make things happen. Certainly not as often as he used to. If he's learned a bit of discipline about pitch craft then great. But the stick has been bent back too far in the opposite direction for me and the way he's being coached is discouraging his creativity.

Point on how stats can be used to prove/disprove anything you want to do.

So Alli is a far more creative player - showed by his dribbles etc

OR you can look at this stat

9th Ross Barkley 6
39th Delli Alli 3

Thats how both players rank this season on leading assists in the league - which is a decent measuring stick for 'creativity' i would guess - more so than dribbles are anyways

Key passes stats
5th Ross Barkley - 2.5 per game
47th Delli Alli - 1.3 per game

So again Barkley massively ahead in the number of key passes made per game (ones that lead to a goalscroing opportunity)

Pass completion %
Barkley 83%
Alli 79%

and again Barkley comes out ahead on the stats

Start quoting stats to back up your point of view mate, then you have to be prepared to accept stats that show your not correct



BTW just for completions sake

Barkleys stats last season
12th - Assists - 8 total
34th key passes - 1.5 per game
86% completion (cvoupled with the lower number of key passes shows he was playing more conservatively)

 

[Simon baker]

Haha I moan about the same as jenas all the time....Barkley does cut back a lot and kills momentum ....fair assessment imo on all accounts. Barkley is not our main player but is showing signs of improvement with the current midfield behind him

He cuts back as there is often no one in front of him & 90% of players would then lose possession however he is so good at retaining possession that he is able to keep the ball & wait for the pass.

Unfortunately you seem unable to see this

 

[murphy89]

I mean this whole discussion is pretty irrelevant as Barkley himself has said he is enjoying his football more and playing better. I'm pretty sure Barkley knows himself better than Jermaine Jenas or @davek

 

[blueboy1664]

He cuts back as there is often no one in front of him & 90% of players would then lose possession however he is so good at retaining possession that he is able to keep the ball & wait for the pass.

Unfortunately you seem unable to see this

Funny that...on Sunday he ran forward in a great attacking position and could of slid the ball forward out to the left with great momentum but he chose to cut back and try the harder pas to his right....and we lost the attach

 

[Walken]

Honestly less, gonna have one bomb jenas next time I see him

 

[Lanolin]

I can kind of see both sides of this argument.

Personally I think Barkley looks like a more complete footballer than at any time in his career so far and his performances are much more rounded and consistent. He is a joy to watch at times, even on Sunday I thought he was excellent. I've long said that he is better suited to a more general midfield role rather than number 10, and I think Koeman is bringing out the best of him in that regard.

That being said, I think we need to make sure he doesn't completely lose the dynamism and unpredictable side of his game that saw him burst on to the scene. He still has the ability to bang them in from 30 yards, and to go on slaloming runs leaving players in his wake. If he can combine the hard working, intelligent, side we've seen in recent months with the flamboyant match winner we've seen in the past, the sky really is the limit for him.

 

[bluestevon]

So what are you saying exactly? You seem to be on the fence. Do you think the critique that Barkley has, in knuckling down, lost some of what made people sit up and notice of him in the first place or not?

I think Barkley has become a far better all round player for those who watch him the full 90 minutes every game week in week out mate
I think Barkley has become a less impressive 'youtube' and match of the day player for those who want 2 minute highlight packages every other week and rate a player based upon that.

NOT having a go at you on that post btw, but having a go at the various pundits etc who frankly don't watch our games and dpon't have a clue

He does less of the crazy runs that first got him noticed by the pundits and media, yup no doubt he doesnt do as many, but he also doesnt run into blind alleys, attempt to dribble rather than the far better passing option etc, because he's maturing as a player, and learning when and when not to do it.

Has he maybe gone a little too far the other way - yup - wont argue that he has done, is that a natural thing to expect initially - ofc it is and it's blind or untrue to say that it isn't.

Will he be a far far better player overall having learnt what he's learning this season in terms of putting in hard work, improving his stamina, learnign to look for that pass rather than stick his head down and try the spectacular very time, yes and most would be open enough to see that.

 

[Amw79]

Jermaine Jenas:

“If there is an element of his game that I think Barkley could take from Alli, it is that he needs to keep the ball moving forwards when he picks it up in the opposition half. Too many times, his first touch seems to take him back into midfield instead. But that could be put down to his confidence, because he seems to be in a different situation to Alli right now.

While Alli has emerged as a key figure for Spurs, Barkley will not have the same feeling that he is his team’s main man. He is close to it, but I feel that he is being held back from what he is capable of. That is partly as a result of some of the negative comments Koeman has made about him this season and also because he always seems to get moans and groans from the crowd if things do not go right for him. If he was playing with the same belief as Alli, he would be a different beast.”

Spot on for me that. Underlines the belief I hold that Ross's game has been neutered by Koeman and not enhanced. We have a lot more bits and pieces tracking back and playing the ball off short, but almost expunged from his game now are creative bursts forward taking the opposition on and driving them back. That is backed up statistically, by the way....

Average number of dribbles per game:

Season 2016/17 1.4

Season 2015/16 3.1

Season 2014/15 3.0

I think there's a kernel of a point in what Jenas is saying, in terms of those numbers though - its all about the stat you pick, and whether dribbling is the measure you think is most important.

See the below for last 4 season (including this one) for key passes, chances created, assists and goals. As I said to you somewhere else, I agree that he needs to weigh in with another 4 or 5 this year, for it to really be great, productive year for him. But the below would indicate that lots of areas of his game are improving.

 

[bluestevon]

Funny that...on Sunday he ran forward in a great attacking position and could of slid the ball forward out to the left with great momentum but he chose to cut back and try the harder pas to his right....and we lost the attach

Sunderland, he had the easy option to play in Coleman (think it was him) - delayed and waited for the defence to shift before playing in an absolutely superb ball for Mirrallas to have a tap in and put the game beyond sunderland when we where getting nervous

 

[Little Ralphy]

He's playing too conservatively for me.

He did need to learn to keep it simple at times, that's for sure. But I see a player that doesn't do what comes natural anymore and that is to get on the ball and try and make things happen. Certainly not as often as he used to. If he's learned a bit of discipline about pitch craft then great. But the stick has been bent back too far in the opposite direction for me and the way he's being coached is discouraging his creativity.

Personally I think it's more that previous managers haven't helped Ross with his game management at all and haven't known how to handle him. Moyes didn't trust him defensively and Martinez didn't appear to let him get involved in his own half either. As a result Ross always seemed to be on the edge of games, and it was frustrating to all, that he never took the game to the opposition and we just saw him in flashes of brilliance...with everyone wondering why he wasn't more involved.

What Koeman has done is challenge Ross to get more involved and then coach him in how to achieve this. For me it's almost like an army drill sergeant, he stripped him back to basics and publicly challenged his mentality. What we see now is a completely different player. He's now far more involved in games than he ever has been before and it seems with each game his influence is growing. We struggled against a good Spurs side - in my view cos of barry's inclusion and an ineffective system - but Barkley was a shining light, even in difficult circumstances.

The Bournemouth game showed his confidence is there, with that celebration before he scored and some of his play in that game would have been lauded in the media if it had have come from a media darling like ali or kane.

Under Koeman it seems that Ross is finally maturing as a footballer, and he's learning when and where to dribble, pass, shoot etc. With taking on more responsibility in games as well, with being asked to work back and close down etc. he's investing a lot more in determining the outcome of games IMO and I think we'll really start to see him shine. Especially with the players behind him in midfield. For every Hazard there's a Kante, Zidane a Makele or Deschamps, Inesta a Busquets.

Everton don't get lots of coverage in the media, we haven't had a lot of high profile players over the years and a lot of ex-players are still in the game and not behind the mic. We don't get loads of coverage because of this, and players like Barkley, Lukaku etc. don't get anywhere near the credit they deserve. That will change though as the club do more to promote themselves and with big Stories like the stadium etc.

 

[MikeH72]

I think there's a kernel of a point in what Jenas is saying, in terms of those numbers though - its all about the stat you pick, and whether dribbling is the measure you think is most important.

See the below for last 4 season (including this one) for key passes, chances created, assists and goals. As I said to you somewhere else, I agree that he needs to weigh in with another 4 or 5 this year, for it to really be great, productive year for him. But the below would indicate that lots of areas of his game are improving.

View attachment 35135

He didn't have a single assist in 2013/14? When everyone was Maradona? What on earth, that's floored me that.

 

[Amw79]

He didn't have a single assist in 2013/14? When everyone was Maradona? What on earth, that's floored me that.

Yeah, I thought that too. Haven't looked it up anywhere else to check, but you'd assume its counting assists consistently across the seasons.

 

[bluestevon]

I think there's a kernel of a point in what Jenas is saying, in terms of those numbers though - its all about the stat you pick, and whether dribbling is the measure you think is most important.

See the below for last 4 season (including this one) for key passes, chances created, assists and goals. As I said to you somewhere else, I agree that he needs to weigh in with another 4 or 5 this year, for it to really be great, productive year for him. But the below would indicate that lots of areas of his game are improving.

View attachment 35135

Bolasie a player a lot on here have slated for blunting our attacks by running down blind alleys and not being creative - has the past two seasons been top ten for the most dribbles per game

 

[Amw79]

He didn't have a single assist in 2013/14? When everyone was Maradona? What on earth, that's floored me that.

Just checked (OCD about stats / numbers)

Whoscored.com has the same 13/14 numbers - 6 goals 0 assists.

 

[Barnfred 55]

Suddenly taking an interest in what pundits think when it suits? Jenas was an utter no mark player who wouldn't know a bit of attacking football if it hit him in the face. A completely ridiculous pundit who has never said anything that the average fan is not capable of seeing for himself. Jenas rates Spurs player higher than Everton player shocker. The same Alli who soiled his pants in the summer, a tournament that Ross' hard work landed him at. Jenas shouldn't even allow himself an opinion on a player like Barkley, it's like Tony Hibbert having a pop at Jordi Alba for his attacking football.

To be fair I actually don't mind Jenas as a pundit. I've always found him a lot better than most of the muppets normally on show. Completely off the mark with this one though.

Also agree that Alli get's a completely free ride in the media too. May actually come back to bite them in the bum if all the publicity leads to Barca/Real coming in for him