Ronald Koeman discussion

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anton66 said:
Who's job is it to actually sell players we don't want? Obviously, Koeman doesn't rate a lot of our squad, so why are we not trying to offload some. Or maybe we haven't filled in that post yet.
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If the board sell players then they are under more pressure to buy players
 

njligernj said:
It's possible he's a coward who says nothing to the player's faces.

It's possible to be a hard arse no nonsense manager without ever conducting any of your hard arse motivation in the public eye.

The fact YOU feel more motivated publicly and YOU prefer Koeman is quite frankly irrelevant.



To YOU. Others feel differently amazingly enough. The players for instance.



YOU can see.



He made sure the team knew it at the start of the season!



Blaming his tools like all great craftsman. The same core finished 5th. Did aging make them less strong? Or in the last two years is *strength* just more important now? Is anything anyone is saying here grounded in an ounce of reality?



*Should* being the word bad managers use to explain why things went wrong.

"Well I did this and then they should have done that."

"No I didn't check if they did it ... because I did the proper thing so they should do the proper thing too!"

"This shouldn't be so over budget."

"This shouldn't be so far past schedule."



Moyes got 7th in his first full season with BK's neg net spend Everton and Martinez got 5th with BK TV money Everton but Koeman cannot be judged on his first season because it's not fair to judge someone on their first full season because it's not enough time to do well ... aside from our last two managers who did it with less resources but because we don't like them we will pretend this somehow is a real thing and also ignore West Ham and Southampton and Chelsea and the RS and all the multiple recent examples of teams doing well with a coach in his first year.



Yeah I agree with that other poster you do sound like a Koeman.
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Interestingly enough he was accused of that by Ivan Helguera at Valencia who said:

"It really upsets me that the coach can say that the absence of the centre halves is causing all the problems. First of all, he said nothing to me but he went and said it to the press. It seems to me that there is a lack of respect from him towards his players who were doing everything they could not to lose that game."
 
We've never been a hire and fire club, and if we become one then this isn't the Everton I've grown up supporting. Fact of the matter is our squad is not good enough, and while I do agree that Koeman's tactics have hardly been brilliant I do feel they are hampered by the fact that, frankly, a lot of our squad are very poor players (Kone, Cleverly, Oviedo and co.) mixed in with aging players whose leg have started to go (Barry & Jags in particular) and only one or two real top four quality players in Coleman and Lukaku. admittedly, I don't think that Koeman is free from blame, especially with his spectacular balls-up against Chelsea, but he does need time, to judge him after 6 months seems very premature for me, especially considering we're in a solid league position, and have a prospect of Europa League football next season.
 

ChesterBlue said:
We've never been a hire and fire club, and if we become one then this isn't the Everton I've grown up supporting. Fact of the matter is our squad is not good enough, and while I do agree that Koeman's tactics have hardly been brilliant I do feel they are hampered by the fact that, frankly, a lot of our squad are very poor players (Kone, Cleverly, Oviedo and co.) mixed in with aging players whose leg have started to go (Barry & Jags in particular) and only one or two real top four quality players in Coleman and Lukaku. admittedly, I don't think that Koeman is free from blame, especially with his spectacular balls-up against Chelsea, but he does need time, to judge him after 6 months seems very premature for me, especially considering we're in a solid league position, and have a prospect of Europa League football next season.
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I'm fine with binning a big headed ginger bell if it wins us the league lad
 
njligernj said:
The comparisons between Koeman supporters and Trump supporters are ceaseless. This obsession with meaningless outward bluster that accomplishes nothing but makes people FEEL better. He's going to clean up the swamp of lazy entitled players!



So this squad is bottom half quality and his masterful motivation skills have boosted the players?

Which players have really noticeably improved?
Which players have improved at all from 3 years ago apart from Lukaku? Precisely zero, under the previous "manager", or this one


Some would suggest the fact you can SEE all his motivations is a problem. Public humiliation is not the only tool in the tool kit for a manager.



It's possible he's a coward who says nothing to the player's faces.

It's possible to be a hard arse no nonsense manager without ever conducting any of your hard arse motivation in the public eye.

The fact YOU feel more motivated publicly and YOU prefer Koeman is quite frankly irrelevant.



To YOU. Others feel differently amazingly enough. The players for instance.



YOU can see.



He made sure the team knew it at the start of the season!



Blaming his tools like all great craftsman. The same core finished 5th. Did aging make them less strong? Or in the last two years is *strength* just more important now? Is anything anyone is saying here grounded in an ounce of reality?
Have you been introduced to the concept of time and space mate? In that a player can possibly be worse than he was 4 years ago due to the human aging process?


*Should* being the word bad managers use to explain why things went wrong.

"Well I did this and then they should have done that."

"No I didn't check if they did it ... because I did the proper thing so they should do the proper thing too!"

"This shouldn't be so over budget."

"This shouldn't be so far past schedule."



Moyes got 7th in his first full season with BK's neg net spend Everton and Martinez got 5th with BK TV money Everton but Koeman cannot be judged on his first season because it's not fair to judge someone on their first full season because it's not enough time to do well ... aside from our last two managers who did it with less resources but because we don't like them we will pretend this somehow is a real thing and also ignore West Ham and Southampton and Chelsea and the RS and all the multiple recent examples of teams doing well with a coach in his first year.
It's January and we're currently 7th so in not sure what this post means


Yeah I agree with that other poster you do sound like a Koeman.
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Zatara said:
Been quoting Valencia articles since we were linked with him...yet for some inane reason people have twisted his time there as 'successful'.
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No doubt his time there was a disaster. It's like Martinez at Wigan some of the same criticisms were being made by their supporters and after the first season you could see he still had the same problems here.
 

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