Usmanov

[Goat]

Do you only eat fair trade produce, not take any pharmaceutical products, not read or watch any paper/website or tv channel owned by unethical people mate?

He will answer after hes finished watching Sky Sports News.

Wonderful man who owns that.

 

[dead_soft]

Do you only eat fair trade produce, not take any pharmaceutical products, not read or watch any paper/website or tv channel owned by unethical people mate?

I am not saying I live a completely ethical life or there aren't parts of my life that probably do contribute to negative aspects of society. However, suggesting you can only show a dislike for something if you are completely unblemished is, in my view, a dangerous position to take. I believe you are doing it to shut down criticism rather than actually engaging with the issue.
I have a direct emotional relationship to the club and, for better or worse, it does shape parts of my character and I feel uncomfortable with it being a vehicle for Usmanov. Even more so when he is being hailed as some wonder being for maybe putting money into the club.

 

[The binman chronicles]

His shares are worthless for someone who wants to have a say at the table, for a long term secure investment it's a different sketch

Just imagine if the market continued as it is now and Arsenal had a continued period of success. Not many ways to earn a possible 20 to 60% increase on your 300m so easily. I'm sure a nouveau riche Chinese businessman would be interested in buying these up, place on the board or not.

 

[rochdaleblue]

The only thing that has held Everton back previously from investment (bar kenwright) has been the ground issue. If moshiri, the board and possibly usmanov (unlikely I know) were to come on board, the potential is limitless. The location, standing of the club and passionate and loyal fanbase would in the future would make Everton a very attractive proposition. Moshiri and usmanov could build the club exactly as they want, not like the situation they have had to endure at arsenal and further down the line sell the club at a profit. Whatever the future holds we are a far better position financially since the glory years of the 80s.

 

[d34noj]

And the fact that there is and it is not widely known supports your view, and mine, that this is indeed a way of working the FPP rules to our advantage

Have we at last arrived at the door of the banqueting hall with a ticket for admission in our hand?

Strange that. The scruffy bloke stood next to us has got 2. He nicked one from the hand of some little kid and the other one looks like a photocopy?

 

[Eggsyblueskin]

It's not naive. I fully understand the realities of the situation. I don't have to accept that this is the only way for it to be. The club and supporting a club is about more than winning.[/QUOTE
I understand you're moral dilemma here. But realistically that boat sailed long ago. I'm sure you know our history with John Moores. Our board along with others attempted to stymie his gambling empire by withholding the fixtures until the day of play. Result they failed and Moores bought the club partly I'm sure to stop them attempting such a stunt again . He's now regarded with respect among Evertonians.
If you want a fan owned ethically correct game , you will probably have to form your own fan owned clubs and leagues. It could be done but is their an appetite for it ? Sadly I doubt it. Sit down and sup with the devil or walk away,they're the only choices on the table I can see.

 

[dead_soft]

I understand you're moral dilemma here. But realistically that boat sailed long ago. I'm sure you know our history with John Moores. Our board along with others attempted to stymie his gambling empire by withholding the fixtures until the day of play. Result they failed and Moores bought the club partly I'm sure to stop them attempting such a stunt again . He's now regarded with respect among Evertonians.
If you want a fan owned ethically correct game , you will probably have to form your own fan owned clubs and leagues. It could be done but is their an appetite for it ? Sadly I doubt it. Sit down and sup with the devil or walk away,they're the only choices on the table I can see.

I know, and I'm not denying those are the options or that the club and football are directly involved in some negative practices. Unfortunately it does seem that the only option left is that of not taking part/putting money into it

 

[Brennan]

ws


Or how about aim to be fan owned or bought by someone is ethical? Or is that stupid because we have to win at any cost?

Fan ownership is a fantasy with the amount of money in the game.

There is not a single person on this forum who would prefer a sin free billionaire to be involved with us, but we live in the real world. We've won sod all for twenty years.

 

[Amw79]

What a guy. His philanthropy knows no bounds.

"On 4 December 2014, Usmanov paid $4.9m for Dr James Watson's Nobel Prize Medal in Physiology or Medicine, which was auctioned at Christie's in New York City. Watson was selling his prize to raise money to support scientific research. After auctions fees, Watson received $4.1m. Usmanov subsequently returned the medal to Watson, stating "in my opinion, a situation in which an outstanding scientist sells a medal recognizing his achievements is unacceptable. Watson's work contributed to cancer research, the illness from which my father died. It is important for me that the money that I spent on this medal will go to supporting scientific research, and the medal will stay with the person who deserved it."[74]"

From wiki

 

[windymiller]

Do you only eat fair trade produce, not take any pharmaceutical products, not read or watch any paper/website or tv channel owned by unethical people mate?

Everyone has their own ethical and moral standards against which they judge themselves (and others). There is no such thing as an absolute moral standard and, frankly, trying to imply that you have to adhere to some form of moral absolutism is as absurd as anything this guy is suggesting to you. He is uncomfortable with the background of the new owner and his business associates, as many of us are, you are not. Fine. There's no need to get all hot under the collar about it. His position is as rational as yours and if you feel the need to attempt to belittle his position, because it varies from yours, then that says more about your values than anyone elses.

 

[bluestevon]

I am not saying I live a completely ethical life or there aren't parts of my life that probably do contribute to negative aspects of society. However, suggesting you can only show a dislike for something if you are completely unblemished is, in my view, a dangerous position to take. I believe you are doing it to shut down criticism rather than actually engaging with the issue.
I have a direct emotional relationship to the club and, for better or worse, it does shape parts of my character and I feel uncomfortable with it being a vehicle for Usmanov. Even more so when he is being hailed as some wonder being for maybe putting money into the club.

OK very brief history lesson, Usmanov isn't one of what are percieved in the west as the oligarchs who emerged post soviet union collapse, he didnt earn his money initially through stealing off the people (which Abramovich did btw) by expliting the share voucher options to buy them for a penny in the pound off the actual people who where starving at the time and had to sell.

In fact he was a huge instrument used to take back assets stolen during that period by various oligarchs and cronies of yeltsin

He was jailed for fraud - a politically motivated frame job - which has been overturned and even the guardian for example has gone into press to say it was thus.
He was widely reported as having been convicted of rape - false
He was widely accused of involvement with a drug smuggler - also found to have been fabricated as being involved
He has ben accused of rackateering in the media - because his original business partner was formerly in the KGB - which Putin was incidentally and a lot of other Russians (inlcuding my own wifes ex husband - FSB as it is now called) - the west opinion of anyone formerly of the KGB - is 'gangster' which is ludicrous in it's widespread arrogance
He has even been accused of being in the KGB himself - yet again with zero evidence and an absurd claim

basically nothing of note has ever been proven, a lot has been disproved and a lot has just been spouted with absolutey zero evidence to support it - but hey in the itnernet age, who needs evidence

Rant over

 

[Gladystweet]

Are people seriously questioning why we're getting investment, and by whom? Yes we are club who do things right, do wonders in the community etc, but we're also a business who need to make money, win football games and trophies, and move with the times.
We're not talking about world domination, we're talking about being able to compete for a change. Were the older generation questioning the 'mersey millionaires' tag in the 60's?
Beggars can't be choosers. If he doesn't invest here, he invests somewhere else. Or is that what some want so they can say "look at so and so, they might be winning this that an d the other, and playing in the champions league every season, but at least we didn't sell our soul to the devil"
I don't get anything out of supporting Everton financially..quite the opposite, but I want to see us win something again..anything! Not too much to ask I reckon, we've served our time.

 

[bluestevon]

What a guy. His philanthropy knows no bounds.

"On 4 December 2014, Usmanov paid $4.9m for Dr James Watson's Nobel Prize Medal in Physiology or Medicine, which was auctioned at Christie's in New York City. Watson was selling his prize to raise money to support scientific research. After auctions fees, Watson received $4.1m. Usmanov subsequently returned the medal to Watson, stating "in my opinion, a situation in which an outstanding scientist sells a medal recognizing his achievements is unacceptable. Watson's work contributed to cancer research, the illness from which my father died. It is important for me that the money that I spent on this medal will go to supporting scientific research, and the medal will stay with the person who deserved it."[74]"

From wiki

donated over 1 billion to various charites over the past 10-15 years

 

[timmyistop]

What a guy. His philanthropy knows no bounds.

"On 4 December 2014, Usmanov paid $4.9m for Dr James Watson's Nobel Prize Medal in Physiology or Medicine, which was auctioned at Christie's in New York City. Watson was selling his prize to raise money to support scientific research. After auctions fees, Watson received $4.1m. Usmanov subsequently returned the medal to Watson, stating "in my opinion, a situation in which an outstanding scientist sells a medal recognizing his achievements is unacceptable. Watson's work contributed to cancer research, the illness from which my father died. It is important for me that the money that I spent on this medal will go to supporting scientific research, and the medal will stay with the person who deserved it."[74]"

From wiki

Must have been a massive medal to go for nearly $5m!

 

[bluestevon]

Everyone has their own ethical and moral standards against which they judge themselves (and others). There is no such thing as an absolute moral standard and, frankly, trying to imply that you have to adhere to some form of moral absolutism is as absurd as anything this guy is suggesting to you. He is uncomfortable with the background of the new owner and his business associates, as many of us are, you are not. Fine. There's no need to get all hot under the collar about it. His position is as rational as yours and if you feel the need to attempt to belittle his position, because it varies from yours, then that says more about your values than anyone elses.

asking someone if they set a different expectation level from the football club they support ethically to one they use int here own life, how is that belittling, it's asking someone for an explanationof the personal values they hold