In other news, over at Waco Central, theres a tardy response to the belief that we were penalised unjustly post Heysel. We weren't, apparently. It was all our own fault....and we see ourselves as victims...and we should remember that 39 people died... we have no shred of human decency...and we are engulfed in self pity....and self inflicted victimhood. But light and shade.... Koeman doesn't read from the bitter mantra sheet apparently.
Son of Spion
Re: The Everton Mañana Topic
« Reply #33704 on: November 16, 2016, 04:54:56 PM »
Quote
At the risk of exposing myself as a "bitter blue", we were banned from Europe because of the antics of others and despite the club turning up at a European final that very year without anyone dying as a result. It was a massive injustice
It's this ''everyone else's fault'' mindset which keeps Everton stuck where they are. They simply will not take any responsibility for their own demise. To many of them, Heysel/LFC is a convenient scapegoat which keeps them from acknowledging the pain of reality. They forget that ALL English teams were banned after Heysel, not just them. We all suffered and the ban came, in part, because of the actions of pretty much all clubs. Heysel was the straw that broke the camel's back. It was far from the only factor. If it were then only LFC would have been banned. The reality was that virtually every English club (and the national team) had hooligan issues back then and Everton were no exception. There are even books by their fans revelling in it all, just as there are by people who followed other English clubs. Hooliganism was rife, and Everton were big players in that at the time themselves. Heysel was the last straw, but going by Everton you'd think it was the only blemish ever to stain English football. Well it wasn't. Man U fans have killed opposition fans in the past. A fan was killed at a Birmingham Vs Leeds game. Many people were afraid to attend matches and attendances suffered as a result. UEFA hated English fans and the monopoly our clubs had on the European Cup. The Tories hated football fans in general and were itching to ban clubs and stick the boot in on football fans generally. Thing is, we all suffered, and lets not forget that 39 people died and that fact is far bigger than football is. Their sad loss is not something anyone with a shred of human decency should be using to score points over. Ever!
The facts are also that Everton won nothing at all in 1986. Yes, their world-beating side did not win a dicky bird in the year their fans are convinced that they would have walked the European Cup. They also lost some important players and did not replace them. Whose fault is that? Well it wasn't ours. While other clubs got on with it, Everton felt sorry for themselves and became engulfed in self-pity. Ironic when you consider that's a tag they attach to us. Their subsequent demise was of their own making, not anyone else's. Their current wallowing in self-pity is their own doing too. Their continual bad management is their own doing, not ours or anyone else's. Thing is though, this reality is far too painful to acknowledge so they would rather rewrite history and wallow in their own self-inflicted victimhood rather than take any responsibility.
I'm finding it difficult to dislike Koeman because he actually cuts through the bullshit and tells it as it is. Unlike so many of the ridiculous yes-people who they've employed in the past willing to read from the bitter mantra sheet. Koeman is possibly everything Everton need, but nothing of what they want. I don't think that many Everton fans realise that the bitter mantra and their overwhelming self-pity and victimhood is what helps keep them smalltime and barely relevant in the modern age. It will take a very strong man at the helm to rip up all that bullshit and get that club to take responsibility for itself and its future rather than go for the easy option of blaming everyone but themselves for where they are and the state they are in.
Depends what you regard as "historic", Angel.
This "rivalry" with United was never a thing until the late seventies when they became very annoyed that despite the trophies they had started amassing, the media still regarded United as a much bigger and more glamorous club than them.
The jealousy the RS felt toward United back then was tangible.
From that period on and into the 80s they started developing a fanbase in the south and in Scandanavia and the "rivalry" began to be fuelled as those fans already in those areas whom had got into United during the post Munich sympathy wave suddenly had a rival set of fans to goad and this added oil to the fire.
Then along came Sky who decided to big this fixture up beyond any importance it has had during the EPL era.
Or any era comes to that.... I am a man in my 60s and I can count on one hand the amount of times Manchester United and Liverpool have been involved in a battle for the Title with each other in my football supporting life.
But only if I try real hard
I have stopped watching that fixture when it is on TV.....not only is it normally a borefest on the pitch, the atmosphere is usually very flat off it.
It is a manufactured rivalry without any rhyme or reason beyond Kopite envy and Sky hyperbole.
And now a couple of generations of fans have bought into it without actually knowing why
Now....I appreciate that a younger person than myself would have grown up knowing only about it in today's terms and that such a person would have a totally different perspective on what is historic as it might have been a thing all their lives.
But for people of my age, the 70s seem like only yesterday and for most of that decade Leeds were the team the Mancs obsessed over and the RS were only starting to come out of our shadow and assert themselves as the most successful team in the city of Liverpool
That might be because you don't support the RS.
lolIn other news, over at Waco Central, theres a tardy response to the belief that we were penalised unjustly post Heysel. We weren't, apparently. It was all our own fault....and we see ourselves as victims...and we should remember that 39 people died... we have no shred of human decency...and we are engulfed in self pity....and self inflicted victimhood. But light and shade.... Koeman doesn't read from the bitter mantra sheet apparently.
Son of Spion
Re: The Everton Mañana Topic
« Reply #33704 on: November 16, 2016, 04:54:56 PM »
Quote
At the risk of exposing myself as a "bitter blue", we were banned from Europe because of the antics of others and despite the club turning up at a European final that very year without anyone dying as a result. It was a massive injustice
It's this ''everyone else's fault'' mindset which keeps Everton stuck where they are. They simply will not take any responsibility for their own demise. To many of them, Heysel/LFC is a convenient scapegoat which keeps them from acknowledging the pain of reality. They forget that ALL English teams were banned after Heysel, not just them. We all suffered and the ban came, in part, because of the actions of pretty much all clubs. Heysel was the straw that broke the camel's back. It was far from the only factor. If it were then only LFC would have been banned. The reality was that virtually every English club (and the national team) had hooligan issues back then and Everton were no exception. There are even books by their fans revelling in it all, just as there are by people who followed other English clubs. Hooliganism was rife, and Everton were big players in that at the time themselves. Heysel was the last straw, but going by Everton you'd think it was the only blemish ever to stain English football. Well it wasn't. Man U fans have killed opposition fans in the past. A fan was killed at a Birmingham Vs Leeds game. Many people were afraid to attend matches and attendances suffered as a result. UEFA hated English fans and the monopoly our clubs had on the European Cup. The Tories hated football fans in general and were itching to ban clubs and stick the boot in on football fans generally. Thing is, we all suffered, and lets not forget that 39 people died and that fact is far bigger than football is. Their sad loss is not something anyone with a shred of human decency should be using to score points over. Ever!
The facts are also that Everton won nothing at all in 1986. Yes, their world-beating side did not win a dicky bird in the year their fans are convinced that they would have walked the European Cup. They also lost some important players and did not replace them. Whose fault is that? Well it wasn't ours. While other clubs got on with it, Everton felt sorry for themselves and became engulfed in self-pity. Ironic when you consider that's a tag they attach to us. Their subsequent demise was of their own making, not anyone else's. Their current wallowing in self-pity is their own doing too. Their continual bad management is their own doing, not ours or anyone else's. Thing is though, this reality is far too painful to acknowledge so they would rather rewrite history and wallow in their own self-inflicted victimhood rather than take any responsibility.
I'm finding it difficult to dislike Koeman because he actually cuts through the bullshit and tells it as it is. Unlike so many of the ridiculous yes-people who they've employed in the past willing to read from the bitter mantra sheet. Koeman is possibly everything Everton need, but nothing of what they want. I don't think that many Everton fans realise that the bitter mantra and their overwhelming self-pity and victimhood is what helps keep them smalltime and barely relevant in the modern age. It will take a very strong man at the helm to rip up all that bullshit and get that club to take responsibility for itself and its future rather than go for the easy option of blaming everyone but themselves for where they are and the state they are in.
See, they are Chelsea's rivals.
Post match interviews after losing he's gonna have a right face on him.
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