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ECHO Comment: "Fears of Witch-hunt Against Liverpool FC"

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catcherintherye said:
It was me that coined that phrase.

There does seem to be the negative fatalism on here that a protracted struggle over ownership will see them get Manchester City levels of investment. I am really not sure. The figures involved for a City style investment have rocketed now as well. Whatever people say, to pay the billion pound asking price, inherent a club with hundreds of million of debt and growing and a stadium that in all honesty will be (like ours currently is) one of the worst in the league in a terrible area for corporate growth doesn't seem as nailed on as people think.

There has always been a tension at Liverpool between the out of town glory hunters and the local lads. Ultimately the locals have lost their club and I think it's starting to sink in what that means. My own take on this is that FSG are seriously hacked off they got made fools out of over the ticket fiasco and is in no small part why Ayre is leaving. Not extending Anfield seems to be part of a game for me, that they try to win back the propaganda war, turn fans against the locals who moved out of Anfield for the protest.

The kopite mindset struggles to really understand the dialectic. They view the world in almost infant level concepts such as "good, bad, hero, villain, evil, amazing" etc. Hicks and Gillette are evil and Klopp is deified to almost Sainthood. There's no clear consensus on what to make of FSG. This is in part down to their search to give simple label and meaning to everything. What they don't get is people behaviours change and adapt due to circumstance. Hicks and Gillette ploughed loads of money in, Benitez wasted it they got frustrated and took their toys away. Perhaps evil behaviour but to view it that way understands the cause and affect. Not just that there was some master plot to destroy them.

Likewise FSG could easily go that way. I can see a period of inertia coming over the club, with FSG increasingly drawing money out, not building or investing in the stadia until they win the wider argument that Liverpool has to be moulded to a club in their image. That is the image of a venture capital American firm imbibing those values. In short Thatcherism. When there is a stand off as increasingly there will be paralysis is caused and could see a similar void to what H & G left. Not prime recruiting ground for billionaires I hasten to add.

Anyone looking in can see major problems with Liverpool FC. They are a club who have negated their local fan base (an ownership blaming them for complaining about £77 tickets) yet have failed to capture the international market. 1 mickey mouse cup (not my words, the words of a Liverpool supporter on the Echo website) in 10 years is not breaking through. Their roots within the city are also so withered it will take some time to turn around.

I didn't realise they only had 51k against Leicester. All joking about attendances aside this is pathetic. We will close to sell out every home league game this season. First game of the season, against the champions if stadium size wasn't an issue I'd imagine we'd have got 60k+ in. The fact they can't sell out, irrespective of the mythical waiting lists should be concern for any rational fan. And the cleverer ones can see this.

The decent performance on the pitch is currently allaying a wider anger and malaise. It won't do this forever. Let the civil war begin. As Shakespeare wrote, cry havoc and release the dogs of war. :D
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You mean Shakespeare managed to cage Rhino Unsworth and Co ?
 
catcherintherye said:
He's well behind Koeman mate. Look at the trophies both have won. Klopp has 3 Koeman has 9. Klopp has never finished in the top 7 in England Koeman has done it in every season. Move beyond the Kopite propaganda and deal in facts and you can see he is not in the same league as Mourinho, Guardiola or Koeman.
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Maybe Klopp is benefitting from the Cult of The Leader (no, not going down the German leader comparison route) but compare Klopp/Koeman to Shankly/Catterick. Shankly wasn't any better than Catterick (hey, guess what lurking Kopites - Everton won more top flight points than any other side in the 60s before The Catt had his heart attacks 6 months into the season after we won the league). In fact you might find some people saying Shankly really wasn't that good at all and it was all down to Paisley. Shankly would wind the players up to the point they'd be climbing the wall and out of control before the kick off but then Paisley would come into the dressing room and get the job done.. it looks a lot like the same manic Shankly-reborn with this nutter and it's just what the idiots love..
 

MoutsGoat said:
I suppose it depends on how much value you place on League Titles in Germany rather than Holland, im sure everybody would put a lot more value on German Titles, klopp has 2 of these, Koeman has 3 Dutch leagues, for me Klopp just edges that portion. They both have 2 charity shields, but Koeman has won 3 Cups in 3 different countries compared to 1 of Klopps German FA Cup.

Not a lot in it for me, difficult to say 1 set of honours is vastly superior to the other.
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I don't think it's harder to win a league in Germany if you are managing one of the big clubs. In reality, there's only 2 teams capable of winning it anyway, it's basically can you come top in a 2 horse race.

In Holland it was also similar at the time, PSV were a really strong side so along with Ajax it was a similar 2 horse race however Feyenoord, AZ and even Twente all had it in them to win the league.
 

boris said:
I don't think it's harder to win a league in Germany if you are managing one of the big clubs. In reality, there's only 2 teams capable of winning it anyway, it's basically can you come top in a 2 horse race.

In Holland it was also similar at the time, PSV were a really strong side so along with Ajax it was a similar 2 horse race however Feyenoord, AZ and even Twente all had it in them to win the league.
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We also have to look at the times they were managing. In Holland his first title came over a decade ago and the Dutch league has significantly declined since then. If you look at his team at Ajax, he had some very good players.

Likewise Klopp won the Bundesliga initially when Bayern were going through a difficult period. When they got their act together he was miles away which is why he left.

I don't buy this idea that Klopps trophies are worth more or Koeman's can't be counted as they are in Holland. Koeman has won trophies in 3 separate countries and won wide critical acclaim in a 4th. He also has more trophies. The rats on RAWK seem to think no sane person could say Koeman was better than Klopp. If your definition of sane is being able to count trophies then that statement will be proven untrue.

Only the flat earthers in society, the ones who are too thick to add up (essentially the Kopites) would make a claim that a manager with less trophies has been more successful than one with more trophies. I mean for Christ sake yesterday on their site they likened to Mourinho to Allardyce and Pulis in managerial ability. I mean how can you possibly begin to try and rationalise a response to that?
 

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