ECHO Comment: "Fears of Witch-hunt Against Liverpool FC"

[catcherintherye]

Do owners of major clubs really spend their own money though in this day and age in football,City even though they have a owner worth 20 billion pounds, they are spending within their means now through turnover,yes its boosted by AbuDhabi commercial deals and stadium expansion but you can be sure Shiekh Mansour isn't dipping into his own pocket funding their annual huge summer sprees like the 1st few years of ownership.Same with Chelsea,Abramovich hasn't dipped into his own pocket in years according to journos,they are spending through their means in the turnover as he has changed the club from relying on him for funds to the club being self sufficient.Since FFP has been born clubs have a remit now to spend within their own means,PSG and City were fined 45 million euros ( was reduced to 15 million each after appeal) each 2 season ago for breaching that by not spending within their means (outside cash influx both clubs did in 2013 summer spree) and breaking an FFP rules.

The pissing contest of my owner is richer than yours is dead,it's all about growing turnover that equates to more spending power,the way to get ahead in football now is to expand Commercially,match day revenue,merchandise and tv revenues (PL and the bonus golden CL tv money),have that magic number turnover of 300-400 pounds then spending 100 million plus every summer is easily done if the turnover is in that bracket and that is why owners today who's clubs hit that mark do not have to breach FFP rules by outside influxes of cash propped up by the owners.

The benchmark team to copy in that regard is Bayern Munich,they play in a small market league that isn't quite big around the world and only get 30 million pound per year in Bundesliga tv revenues,they by definition are the biggest club by far in Germany but by size in world football the fanbase would be lucky to be in the top 10 amongst the El classico teams and about 6 PL teams and Juventus who have 80% of Italy supporting them who make the top 10.Also the matchday revenues at Bayern are not big as season ticket costs around 150 euros a year and matchday tickets are alot lot cheaper than a premier league game.The last turnover results for Bayern were 417 million pounds and their commercial revenues were £213 million pounds,the club is split into 2 with a sporting and business structure and no side interferes with the other,they are different entities working for the same goal making Bayern stronger on and off the field.I saw a interview a few months ago with Bayern Chairman Karl Heinz Ruminegger on Bloomberg tv and he went into great detail about how the club is run on and off the field.Yes beating 217 million pounds commercially is practically impossible they get the cream of german companies sponsoring them,but to narrow the gap the TV revenues dwarf bayern's with the new Tv deal coming into effect next season,but it shows getting commercial deals and building a merchandising operation to get to the 300+ magic number is feasible with the right operation.

Anyway here is a indepth look at Bayern Munich figures.

The answer to your question is not really. Mansour did but has pulled out a little. I think most go through a phase where they pump money in then slowly try to let the club stand on it's own two feet.

The pissing contest as you call I am not sure is entirely dead but laying dormant. I agree with the idea of expansion of revenues. Everton are in a far healthier position than Chelsea or City were at the time of their takeovers, so it's a good base to build from. Moshiri was one of the 3 key figures involved with building Arsenal up and I suspect that may be his ambition in England for Everton. Having the ambition and achieving it are very different things mind.

Everton are a long way off Bayern and would really struggle to match that profile. I think building towards an Arsenal would be a more realistic goal. United are currently in a bit of a mess and Liverpool are not the brand they once were. It does give us an opportunity.

 

[catcherintherye]

And go back to the manager (Pep) who has given him 5 starts this season.

Doesn't make sense.

From what they're being targetted with lately and bought so far (Matip and Grujic for a combined 6 million,one on a bosman) it looks like they have a plan in place for the players they are signing,no surprise the disjointed fragmented buying policy of the last few years came under British managers.

I see them being a perennial Champions league team under Klopp like the days of Benitez,who also bought players for a rigid system and never deviated from that,it brings continuity and cohesion in a team that becomes consistant every year.

I'm sure lots of have said you're a red, I'm not too bothered either way. I'm going to post this on the assumption you are.

I think you make good points. The FSG model for Liverpool is not only badly administered but completely the wrong approach for them. Frankly the recruitment side of it has been appalling and LFC have not really shown themselves to be particularly competent at developing players. the advantage they have is signing top players and turning them into guys who win trophies. That was Benitez's model, he bought good players for hefty prices and made them into a title challenging team.

I am not sure that's Klopp's model. For me the jury is still out on him big time. They are 9th in the league. There have been some outstanding performances, but also some alarming ones. I worry if the old Achilles heel of knowing how to beat sides that sit back has been solved. It's hard to judge Klopp fairly though as he is the hipsters favourite so presenting anything impartial is seen as completely hateful. All we can say, is Tuchel has taken over in his absence and rejuvenated them and they look a far better team. The levels of improvement far outweigh anything Klopp has achieved thus far at Liverpool. That said he should be judged properly after a transfer window.

As for the signings. The Matip signing looks an astute piece of business. He does look a bit error prone recently though so is not a ready made replacement. Grujic has potential but in all honesty I can't see him getting enough game time. I think he'll be another Markovic, Le Tallec etc on the scrapheap. It is positive for them that they are buying average players for decent fees, and not paying 26 million like they did for Lallana though!

The key will be, can he attract players of the calibre of Alonso, Mascherano, Torres to the club like Benitez did. I am not sold on Goetze at all he has gone backwards massively.

 

[Deleted member 24970]

I'm sure lots of have said you're a red, I'm not too bothered either way. I'm going to post this on the assumption you are.

I think you make good points. The FSG model for Liverpool is not only badly administered but completely the wrong approach for them. Frankly the recruitment side of it has been appalling and LFC have not really shown themselves to be particularly competent at developing players. the advantage they have is signing top players and turning them into guys who win trophies. That was Benitez's model, he bought good players for hefty prices and made them into a title challenging team.

I am not sure that's Klopp's model. For me the jury is still out on him big time. They are 9th in the league. There have been some outstanding performances, but also some alarming ones. I worry if the old Achilles heel of knowing how to beat sides that sit back has been solved. It's hard to judge Klopp fairly though as he is the hipsters favourite so presenting anything impartial is seen as completely hateful. All we can say, is Tuchel has taken over in his absence and rejuvenated them and they look a far better team. The levels of improvement far outweigh anything Klopp has achieved thus far at Liverpool. That said he should be judged properly after a transfer window.

As for the signings. The Matip signing looks an astute piece of business. He does look a bit error prone recently though so is not a ready made replacement. Grujic has potential but in all honesty I can't see him getting enough game time. I think he'll be another Markovic, Le Tallec etc on the scrapheap. It is positive for them that they are buying average players for decent fees, and not paying 26 million like they did for Lallana though!

The key will be, can he attract players of the calibre of Alonso, Mascherano, Torres to the club like Benitez did. I am not sold on Goetze at all he has gone backwards massively.

As long as the red rags are around you can guarantee the following:

A) Liverpool are still a top four team. (club - yes, team - no)
B) Klopp is the closest thing to managerial greatness in a long time. (Would love mourinho to shut him up)
C) Liverpool are in a rebuilding process for 8 years now, Chelsea imploded for sacking Jose.
D) Everton are in a mess because Lukaku might want CL footy, the suarez, sterling, mascherano and Alonso moves never happened.

 

[peteblue]

And you disagree ?
They are coming for you my friend, it was nice knowing you for the brief moment we met online...
(although I didn't expect you to pop up on cam wearing ladies suspenders)

I'd been the pub tbf......

 

[PITA]

I'm sure lots of have said you're a red, I'm not too bothered either way. I'm going to post this on the assumption you are.

I think you make good points. The FSG model for Liverpool is not only badly administered but completely the wrong approach for them. Frankly the recruitment side of it has been appalling and LFC have not really shown themselves to be particularly competent at developing players. the advantage they have is signing top players and turning them into guys who win trophies. That was Benitez's model, he bought good players for hefty prices and made them into a title challenging team.

I am not sure that's Klopp's model. For me the jury is still out on him big time. They are 9th in the league. There have been some outstanding performances, but also some alarming ones. I worry if the old Achilles heel of knowing how to beat sides that sit back has been solved. It's hard to judge Klopp fairly though as he is the hipsters favourite so presenting anything impartial is seen as completely hateful. All we can say, is Tuchel has taken over in his absence and rejuvenated them and they look a far better team. The levels of improvement far outweigh anything Klopp has achieved thus far at Liverpool. That said he should be judged properly after a transfer window.

As for the signings. The Matip signing looks an astute piece of business. He does look a bit error prone recently though so is not a ready made replacement. Grujic has potential but in all honesty I can't see him getting enough game time. I think he'll be another Markovic, Le Tallec etc on the scrapheap. It is positive for them that they are buying average players for decent fees, and not paying 26 million like they did for Lallana though!

The key will be, can he attract players of the calibre of Alonso, Mascherano, Torres to the club like Benitez did. I am not sold on Goetze at all he has gone backwards massively.

Catcher, I think we should welcome reds who are openly red as long as they don't revert to Rawkish-type. Using blue in his (or her?) username is odd.

 

[Steve0]

Right I know forum wars are a tad embarrassing but I had to include this post

favorite poster over there,with his indomitable style of 10000 words and 100 grammatical errors

He's not American so he misspelled the second word in a post slating someone's English skills. And somehow I think he meant 'inimitable' and not 'indomitable' lol lol

 

[catcherintherye]

As long as the red rags are around you can guarantee the following:

A) Liverpool are still a top four team. (club - yes, team - no)
B) Klopp is the closest thing to managerial greatness in a long time. (Would love mourinho to shut him up)
C) Liverpool are in a rebuilding process for 8 years now, Chelsea imploded for sacking Jose.
D) Everton are in a mess because Lukaku might want CL footy, the suarez, sterling, mascherano and Alonso moves never happened.

Yes, there is a huge cognitive dissonance there.

a) They are a mid table club (like us) finishing in the top 4 once in about 7 years.

b) Klopp did a good job while Bayern were struggling a few years back. His period before he left Dortmund was utter failure. Touched has far exceeded the team Klopp left.

c) Liverpool are in the process of slow decline.

d) Everton will struggle after losing Lukaku. You can't get around that. The idea we have an "ageing squad" is amusing though. We've regularly had 3 and sometimes up to 5 players under 23 playing in our first team. That compares with normally 1 for them.

They are the facts of the case. They will hate them because they can't take the truth.

 

[catcherintherye]

Right I know forum wars are a tad embarrassing but I had to include this post

favorite poster over there,with his indomitable style of 10000 words and 100 grammatical errors

He's not American so he misspelled the second word in a post slating someone's English skills. And somehow I think he meant 'inimitable' and not 'indomitable' lol lol

Is that me ? It should be favourite too, but I'm not a pedant and have never worried too much about grammar. It is the last refuge of the stupid so I can see it being a popular vehicle for them to focus on.

 

[catcherintherye]

The rats on rawk are all having an orgasm over this article and seem to find it amusing that we can't fathom what it's saying due to the alleged awe we hold it in. Just for them here's a comment (I will go into more detail later).

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/liverpool-fc-worth-nearly-1bn-9198074

As a summary it shows Liverpool are in the top 10 wealthiest clubs in Europe and currently remain outside of the top 4 wealthiest clubs in England. They have consolidated their wealth though, at around 30% of the value of United their supposed big rivals.

It is being heralded as some major success over there though. In the absence of winning any trophies of merit in the last decade they've taken to celebrating having more money than us, and being a fraction of the size of United as success. Winning without winning as it were.

Not only that they've resorted to the "we're richer than you" type of approach that signifies the tory led society we live in. That sort of scummy approach fits them like a hand to a glove mind.

In other news Solomon Grundy the lad from Preston is still posting away on there. Not a single person has thought to question him on his misinformation, deceit and lies around the Hillsborough disaster. I think it's fair to say a lot of them see it as one big joke. Maybe there'll share some humour over a pint and laugh with the other regular Sun reading rats in my local. Sounds may be writing in it and Lawro or other reds legends may be pictured with it.

For most it would be a complete lack of class. I'm sure they'd direct you to the reality that they have more money than everyone else, except they don't. They have a tiny portion of United's wealth. Not long till City overtake them as well!

 

[summerisle]

Oh Dear.

 

[bluesince68]

Liverpool are named in that Super Six alongside Barcelona, Chelsea, Manchester City, Manchester United and Real Madrid. Forbes says that “these teams have created a large, global following and have figured out how to monetize it.”

Laughable how Man City are in the super six of clubs,the requisite for being in the super six is Match day revenue,commercial revenues,social media numbers and TV revenues.

Matchday.
1. They could even sell out the Etihad when it was at 48K capacity and recently expanded to 54K and still struggle to sell out and now have plans to expand to a further 61K,that tells me their super rich owner is obviously buying up the empty seats to boost match day revenue.

Commercial.
2.Commercial revenues, Etihad ArabTec Etisalat Aabar and AbuDhabiTourism are all companies linked to ownership giving them a laughable 3rd highest commercial revenues in world football.Their kitdeal with Nike at 12 million a year is one of the lowest amongst the top teams in europe further proof outside of Abu Dhabi they are not a commercially viable Bohemoth and they need the abu dhabi deals to get past FFP scrutiny.

Social media.
3.The numbers of hits for videos on their offical Youtube channel as an example shows something dodgy is going on with their social media numbers that are comparable to the Real Madrid and Barcelona numbers of hits on Youtube,they must hire migrant workers in squalid conditions like in Qatar with the sole aim of boosting their social media presence,poor guys having to click on City affiliated Youtube videos and retweet tweets etc and fav pics on Instagram and likes on FB.They do not even have a fanbase outside of Manchester,they cannot even sell out grounds on tours to the USA Asia/Australia.This link pretty much destroys City's presence in social media,hardly in any top 3 in any country. https://interactive.twitter.com/premierleague/#?mode=team&teamId=all&country=UKR

 

[ste d' indica]

Liverpool are named in that Super Six alongside Barcelona, Chelsea, Manchester City, Manchester United and Real Madrid. Forbes says that “these teams have created a large, global following and have figured out how to monetize it.”

Laughable how Man City are in the super six of clubs,the requisite for being in the super six is Match day revenue,commercial revenues,social media numbers and TV revenues.

Matchday.
1. They could even sell out the Etihad when it was at 48K capacity and recently expanded to 54K and still struggle to sell out and now have plans to expand to a further 61K,that tells me their super rich owner is obviously buying up the empty seats to boost match day revenue.

Commercial.
2.Commercial revenues, Etihad ArabTec Etisalat Aabar and AbuDhabiTourism are all companies linked to ownership giving them a laughable 3rd highest commercial revenues in world football.Their kitdeal with Nike at 12 million a year is one of the lowest amongst the top teams in europe further proof outside of Abu Dhabi they are not a commercially viable Bohemoth and they need the abu dhabi deals to get past FFP scrutiny.

Social media.
3.The numbers of hits for videos on their offical Youtube channel as an example shows something dodgy is going on with their social media numbers that are comparable to the Real Madrid and Barcelona numbers of hits on Youtube,they must hire migrant workers in squalid conditions like in Qatar with the sole aim of boosting their social media presence,poor guys having to click on City affiliated Youtube videos and retweet tweets etc and fav pics on Instagram and likes on FB.They do not even have a fanbase outside of Manchester,they cannot even sell out grounds on tours to the USA Asia/Australia.This link pretty much destroys City's presence in social media,hardly in any top 3 in any country. https://interactive.twitter.com/premierleague/#?mode=team&teamId=all&country=UKR

I'm not sure you've posted that in the right thread mate... Or on the right website frankly.

 

[Goat]

Liverpool are named in that Super Six alongside Barcelona, Chelsea, Manchester City, Manchester United and Real Madrid. Forbes says that “these teams have created a large, global following and have figured out how to monetize it.”

Laughable how Man City are in the super six of clubs,the requisite for being in the super six is Match day revenue,commercial revenues,social media numbers and TV revenues.

Matchday.
1. They could even sell out the Etihad when it was at 48K capacity and recently expanded to 54K and still struggle to sell out and now have plans to expand to a further 61K,that tells me their super rich owner is obviously buying up the empty seats to boost match day revenue.

Commercial.
2.Commercial revenues, Etihad ArabTec Etisalat Aabar and AbuDhabiTourism are all companies linked to ownership giving them a laughable 3rd highest commercial revenues in world football.Their kitdeal with Nike at 12 million a year is one of the lowest amongst the top teams in europe further proof outside of Abu Dhabi they are not a commercially viable Bohemoth and they need the abu dhabi deals to get past FFP scrutiny.

Social media.
3.The numbers of hits for videos on their offical Youtube channel as an example shows something dodgy is going on with their social media numbers that are comparable to the Real Madrid and Barcelona numbers of hits on Youtube,they must hire migrant workers in squalid conditions like in Qatar with the sole aim of boosting their social media presence,poor guys having to click on City affiliated Youtube videos and retweet tweets etc and fav pics on Instagram and likes on FB.They do not even have a fanbase outside of Manchester,they cannot even sell out grounds on tours to the USA Asia/Australia.This link pretty much destroys City's presence in social media,hardly in any top 3 in any country. https://interactive.twitter.com/premierleague/#?mode=team&teamId=all&country=UKR

City are a much bigger club than the vermin tho.

 

[Steve0]

Super six team that hasn't won a major trophy in over a decade and hasn't won their league for over a quarter of a century. Lolz!!!

 

[Goat]

Super six team that hasn't won a major trophy in over a decade and hasn't won their league for over a quarter of a century. Lolz!!!

Its clearly based on spunking a bucket load of money on utter tripe.

How much did they pay for that Firmino? 30m+? LOL Benteke 32m? LOLOLOLOLOL And theres little old Mario.