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Gibbo4
Player Valuation: £950k
Seems as good a time as any to remind everyone that we have never lost a home game that Darron Gibson started.
Verbal Kint
Player Valuation: £35m
You know something they all look good on paper individually, but if we had a back four of Bellerin Dann Shawcross and Fuchs we would be top of the league.
And none of them would be valued more than our defenders.
Strange thing this football.
the crazy world of Dave is not something I am commenting on.
Im just saying comparison with other first halves of the season in recent times is good context to show at this point.
an although we disagree on the manager, your input on results, points and won % and such is good context too on the other side. its not good enough.
i am willing to give him his contract time unless there is a disaster such as imminent relegation or other unforseeable shenanigans. I don't see the ins and outs of the club to be able to say exactly what he is doing wrong and right.
I dont believe stats and results and points tell the whole story. Every 90 minutes can be its own story and margins between won draw and lose can be very fine and often not completely in the managers control.
if im not wrong i think we disagree on the idea of football being a "results business". I want us to win everything but its not be all and end all for me. For me football is a lot more than that.
Currently, as frustrating as they are, I look forward to watching this team play. I am expectant every time we are on the ball and cant get enough of how good these youngsters are and their confident attitude to an attacking game no matter the opposition.
I credit the manager with that and the attacking style because he has always talked about letting players make mistakes and learn on the job and this obviously instills confidence in young talent and we see the benefit of that quite clearly.
The defensive side, im not sure. We were good in the first season and crap in the second. However in the second season we were pretty terrible from front to back so i dont think it was just a defensive issue. This season, if we had Baines, Jags and McCarthy playing much more than they have and we were still shipping goals and losing leads I would have more of an issue. Their loss has been felt however, so I am willing to cut some slack with a defense with two youngsters and a guy in his first prem league season. I think we all should remember that when tearing into the team this season.
I think a key thing we also disagree on, is that I dont see that allowing the boss the time to do what he has to do is going to cause any huge harm if it doesnt work out. I dont see this sudden demotion to at best a bottom half team because of how Martinez is running the club and how other clubs are improving. I guess not believing that scenario is possible, allows me to be way more patient during the bad times with this manager.
The positives are still winning it for me. I can understand others views however. You make plenty of valid points when batting away the many potshots at you.
I have to say, the only thing that bugs me is the fuming. The shouts of "disgraceful", "useless" "stealing a living" and other such overthetoppery which infest the match thread and many others.
having said all that, im off for a night out in Dublin to drown my sorrows. Everton 3 Spurs 0.....
Chang Elephant
Forum God
Some exceptionally beautiful stats in here <goes back to making banner & flags for next home game>
WarringtonBlue
Player Valuation: £8m
Good attacking performances
When we go in with a game plan (Southampton, chelsea) we play exceptionally
When we go out and play our natural game our defending is keystone cops, and stones is a big part in this
Awful goalkeeper
Choking. 3 points from Norwich, Palace, Bournemouth, Leicester, Stoke, when we should have had 13
Lots of improvements to male.
When we go in with a game plan (Southampton, chelsea) we play exceptionally
When we go out and play our natural game our defending is keystone cops, and stones is a big part in this
Awful goalkeeper
Choking. 3 points from Norwich, Palace, Bournemouth, Leicester, Stoke, when we should have had 13
Lots of improvements to male.
I agree but we just can't hold on to leads.
The mental weakness is everywhere
WarringtonBlue
Player Valuation: £8m
I know. At3-2, I knew they would equalose
I know and so probably did martinez but he just stood there with his eyes shut
mini-Blues x 2
Player Valuation: £500k
I must agree with you. Dann for me should be looked at and Shawcross big strong lad who lets players know he is there. Maybe what we need.
Saint Domingo
Player Valuation: £90m
Few points on this. 'The footy going forward is sublime'. Let's start with the premise that seeing as we have pretty much abandoned all defensive responsibilities in the team, and have a 30 million striker upfront backed up by our best academy product for a generation we probably should be fairly decent going forward. Then let's look at 0 v Spurs, 0 v United, 0 v City, 0 v Swansea, 1 v Liverpool, 1 v West Ham, 1 v Palace, 1 v Norwich, 1 v Leicester, 1 v Arsenal, 1 v Newcastle. Thats 11 games off the top of my head out of 19 that we've failed to score more than one. Sure we caned Villa, Chelsea and Sunderland and scored a lot in draws to Bournemouth and in defeat to Stoke but the word that springs to mind wouldn't be 'sublime' when you look at the actual figures we are posting rather than getting giddy at some intricate passing.
'A goal keeper solves the defensive weakness'. If this is true, (big if), why has Martinez allowed 5 transfer windows to pass without rectifying it? Why did he also buy a backup keeper that seems unable to challenge Howard for number 1 spot (regardless of whether a large portion of fans think he is the better keeper)? This is a glaring glaring weakness that a supposedly top class manager has just allowed to carry on to the point it is undermining us most games.
'We will do it' - what has given you that confidence? Martinez has made no effort to change keeper and how exactly do we improve the defence or the goalscoring output?
'We need to finish top half and will'. - A brilliant prediction there almost Phil Nevilleesque. When did this become an acceptable target? People at the club got laughed at for saying that in Moyes' time. Anything outside the top 8 is a monumental under performance given the resources available to the manager.
davek
Player Valuation: £150m
Really? You're really casting doubt on the attacking prowess of this team? If there's one thing this manager can't be charged with it's sending a team out to maintain a low scoring game.
As for Howard not being replaced: he has t always ben this bad, he's deteriorated rapidly over the past 12 months though and should have been replaced in the summer.
Saint Domingo
Player Valuation: £90m
The manager chose to spend money elsewhere on players that he's really not got the most out of this season ie Lennon, Besic before that. He should have prioritised a keeper over that ridiculous flirtation with Yarmolenko.. 15 mill ready for a player with no intention of moving but no thought of changing the keeper? Crazy. Howard has been at a poor level since Moyes' last season. Hoping he would magically return to his peak was naive.
I don't disagree that this team is good going forward but the facts do not lie. We've plundered a few teams heavily but in 11 of the 19 games we've not scored more than one which is why we've drawn and lost a lot which is why we're mid table now. We have periods of looking sublime going forward but also long periods of looking as though we won't trouble the goalkeeper like Watford first half, Liverpool second half, Spurs away, Norwich second half, most of the Leicester game, first half WBA game City United and Arsenal games. You mistake our very best moments in games as a style of play we play all the time. It's not true, if it was we wouldn't be where we are in the league. We waste a lot of time in games playing at a tempo nowhere near the one we play our best stuff at which is why we are often chasing games.
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