John Stones transfer saga

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its a short term view that is dictated by who has the most money at the moment.
we are a big club ,if we had a decent financial backing , we would be bigger than Chelsea . they are only 'big' because of finance, historically they are not that big. if we keep our talent and build on it we could be a team to fear in the next few years.
if we sell our best players though , its admittance that we are not going anywhere , and this is as good as it gets ....a best of the rest outside the top 6 selling club.

I know we're a big club in the overall period of English Football, but right at this moment we're in the second tier of clubs thrown in with the Geordies and Villa etc whilst Chelsea are seen as one of the biggest. The current big clubs win things. We haven't won a trophy for 20 years.

I understand what you're saying but you're relying on ifs. If we hang on to talents like Stones, and start to win things again then we will be seen as a bigger club again.
 
We ain't getting anyone better as a 3rd choice CB, unless you think Ramos or Dragovic will come in for £15 mil+ to sit on the bench.

My point is those 2 know the country and it's culture, Evans knows the prem and woukd slot in right away should Stones kick up a fuss ala Lescott and VVD suits martinez's system.

Fact is its utterly deluded to expect some bloke to come in from a pub league on the other side of the world and slot into our first team within 1-2 weeks it's a non starter- something John Stones and his agent will know only too well.
Why is it that any other league that isn't The Premier League is classed as a pub league ?

Have you seen the state of some of the defending in our league ?

The Argentine Primera Division is far from the standard you think it is.
 

Greetings chaps, I am a total neutral observer. I used to be a season ticket holder at Wigan and feel your anger. I have read every page of this thread and can relate to a lot of it a la Whelan. I don't really know where to start with this one. I suppose the top and tail of the situation is that clubs like Wigan and Everton are just part of the cycle that ensures the best players end up at the top clubs. There are just different levels of 'club progression' in terms of players using them as stepping stones, (stepping Stones, how very apt) clubs like Wigan who see players like McCarthy, Kone and Robles leave was angering but not shocking. They were leaving for a bigger club. The same with the flatulent speaking contradiction that is Roberto Martinez and his love with players showing 'maturity' 'positives' 'working hard to bring players in with the right mentality' cobblers. Waiting around for months then signing players for the reserves. Anyhow, i am digressing down the Martinez route a bit here.

Personally, i had been going to watch Wigan Athletic ever since i was old enough to go on my own, about 20 odd years worth from the old Springfield Park days to the heights of the Premier League and what a journey it was. Dave Whelan bought us in 1995 and said Premiership in 10 years. Of course it sounded stupid, almost as stupid as him telling everyone he broke his leg every 5 minutes so his mate Jim White can comment on it. The business plan was brilliant. 10 years work, hundreds of millions in profits. he spent about 15m on the squad from the old 3rd Division to us getting to the Premiership. He got the council and other investors to fund the stadium build then he sold the old ground to Dorbcrest homes (which he holds a stake in) he then bought Wigan Warriors and sold their ground to Tesco for 40 million thus enabling him to let both clubs RENT the stadium from his holding company 'Whelco Holdings' I am telling you this as it adds weight to his merciless crusade to become mega rich and reading some posts about Kenwright sounds very similar. He promised Paul Jewell 50m to spend in the first season and the players from the Championship who took them up 1m each. They all got a holiday to Barbados and Jewell spent about 5m. Even making a media bulging 10m bid for Michael Owen when he was at Real Madrid. He hired a team of successful and shrewd managers to sign players for peanuts and sell them for fortunes. Chimbonda, Baines, Palacios, N'Zogbia, Cattermole, McCarthy, McCarthur, Moses, Bullard, Valencia etc etc. Add that to the 8 Premiership seasons of sky money and i work out he took nearly 700m whilst investing about 100m back. Not a bad business plan eh? I stopped going When he sold the team under Steve Bruce's nose. About 8th in the league at that point, Zaki was on fire, N'Zogbia, Valencia, Cattermole, Palacios. It was some bloody team that then after christmas it was all disbanded and not replaced. That was when i decided i wouldn't be going again.

That is where i sympathize with some of you who have said the same thing. As football fans you pay a lot of money to be entertained and wanting your club to show some backbone and ambition but some owners just don't want progression. They are simply happy to just sustain league status and gobble up Sky money every season but STILL EXPECT you to pay hundreds of quid every year to see your team win a handful of games. Not value for money especially at a history laden side like Everton, you have the right to expect ambition and cannot understand how you have been left behind in regards to the top 6ish in the league. You are quite similar to Aston Villa in many ways, original members, never relegated (i think) and have both flirted with the top 6 for a few seasons before dropping back to mid-table - relegation flirters. I really do believe we need a salary cap in football now. A worldwide one, say £20,000 a week per player. Every club can afford that amount and it would give everyone a more level playing field. That would eliminate a lot of this player power and desire to leave and i guarantee the shape of the top 6 would change on a seasonly basis and it would increase revenue of every single club as well as making football a hell of a lot more entertaining. The industry is on it's arse, Chairmen and board members are greedy for cash and it's the fans who pay for it. The only way to win is to vote with your feet. Players like Stones are living in an age where they are very very easily influenced by the media and money (to be fair who wouldn't be) the days where players like Big Dunc, Unsworth and Dave Watson fought for the shirt are long gone. You get the odd one but in general those days are gone. Football fans in general need to make a stand against this top 4 domination and billionaire takeovers. My granddad often tells me of the days where any team in the league could win it, it was all about how they were managed and the players they had bought that particular season. A bit like the Championship is now. It's all well and good Chelsea and Man City having this outrageous spending power but where will they be when the owners have had enough (which they will eventually) Abramovich has shown signs of it. They will fall out of existence, or near enough. Doesn't matter how hard they try, they will never have the global branding of Man Utd, Barcelona, Real Madrid so they will never get rich from merchandising. Sport goes around in cycles and they will hit a brick wall eventually.

What i can't understand about Everton is they have made substantial amounts on player transfers over the years, Barkley and Stones to be the latest ones. Taken Sky money every season for 23 years on the trot, you fill your ground every game yet Bill Kenwright claims you are in debt. How can that be? I just don't get it. I get that you may have been in debt in the early 90's but the rate the Sky money rocketed from 98' there is just no way it can be as bad as he makes out. A club with so much debt surely wouldn't sanction the 15m transfer of Fellaini or the £20+m transfer of Lukaku. Something doesn't add up.

Welcome mate, thanks for your comprehensive first post!
 
We ain't getting anyone better as a 3rd choice CB, unless you think Ramos or Dragovic will come in for £15 mil+ to sit on the bench.

My point is those 2 know the country and it's culture, Evans knows the prem and woukd slot in right away should Stones kick up a fuss ala Lescott and VVD suits martinez's system.

Fact is its utterly deluded to expect some bloke to come in from a pub league on the other side of the world and slot into our first team within 1-2 weeks it's a non starter- something John Stones and his agent will know only too well.

so we get one from a proper pub league close by instead who has been shown up constantly anytime he plays above pub league standard.
 
says it perfectly. It is time to recognise we are watching spoilt multi-millionaires being guided by vultures with no long term vision for the game or even the player. Time for a stand. West Brom may be doing the same. The game will be better for it and I guarantee we will feel better for it and maybe transfer windows will be a civiised circus in future.

This is what gets me, it seems horribly myopic of his agent to not realize that starting every game gives Stones the best chance of going to Euros. None of Chelsea's centre backs have played all three league games this season, Stones really wants to enter that fray?

Not that I personally care much about how he develops if he's not our player, I get his agent just wants his fee now so he can stop worrying about injuries dropping his future transfer value.

Hope Martinez is giving the sales pitch of his life to the board to stay strong and turn down the move. I know Tubey and a couple others will think I'm being naive for not assuming that the board orchestrated this whole thing, but I don't think his sale is a foregone conclusion just yet.
 
It would be 33m less 15% to Barnsley , and possibly agents fees. We would finish up with less than 30 m, by a long way. It has to be £40 m at the very least, but preferably turn down the request, which is no Stones wanting to leave, its a 21 year old Stones being confused and pressured by Chelsea and the media.

Do you think Kenwright is likely to turn it down Steve?
 

Because this is not a kindergarten mate it's a professional sports club, he's contracted and well paid at that so he meets his obligations.

If he doesn't like it he can kick a ball around in some corner of Finch Farm all by himself.

(PS this is how I would play it, I doubt the club will although I am always hopeful)

Article 15 of FIFA rules regarding players is entitled Players Terminating A Contract with Sporting Just Cause


An established professional who in the course of a season, appeared in fewer that ten percent of the official matches in which his club has been involved may terminate his contract prematurely on the grounds of sporting just cause


Or if he is is told to kick a ball around in some corner of Finch Farm by himself will say bye bye come seasons end and not a penny piece will be paid by whoever he then plays football for
 
Doesn't sound like we will hear anything from the club until later or tomorrow, according to Phil McNulty:

'Everton have yet to make any official response on whether they have received - let alone rejected - the transfer request from defender John Stones as he tries to push through a move to Chelsea. Take it as read, though, that the request has been made.

Everton - who are believed to be keeping quiet until after Wednesday's League Cup tie with Barnsley - will surely reject the request because to do otherwise accepts Stones will leave and hand control of the situation to Chelsea.'
 
Actually I do. Selling clubs manipulate transfer requests, see Fellaini for details.

Pipe down.
But the case in point is not Fellaini and you have no great insight in this instance so telling someone they're woefully naive because you believe it to be an absolute just makes you sound like a bellend.
 
Actually I do. Selling clubs manipulate transfer requests, see Fellaini for details.

Pipe down.
I don't really understand this. Why is Stones playing along with their plan? He knows he'll look greedy and disloyal to many for forcing a move this late, I don't see what he gets out of going along with the board's diabolical plan.

If the board have told him "we won't sell you unless you turn in a transfer request", would you consider that "manipulating transfer requests"?
 
But the case in point is not Fellaini and you have no great insight in this instance so telling someone they're woefully naive because you believe it to be an absolute just makes you sound like a bellend.

Read his post before chatting rubbish - he was talking about the issue of transfer requests being rife and nothing to do with the selling club.

Again, pipe down, learn to read.
 

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