Martinez Out: Post Stoke poll

[streeky]

Like many managers in the modern game, Bobby is obsessed with stats.

And when any person in any walk of life and in any pursuit becomes obsessed with stats he or she becomes blinded to the objective they were trying to achieve in the first place.

All those sideways passes along the back four make the completed passes and possession stats look good.

Stats have told him that only one corner in every ten or sommat leads to a goal so there is no point practicing corner routines.

Ditto he believes a goal comes on average after about 8.42 passes so players are discouraged from having a dig unless they can see the white of the goalie's eyes.

Stats obsessives love their graphs, their pie charts and the law of averages.

This is why Bobby is in denial after every poor performance and feels we "deserved" more......because everything the statistician's laid out in the manual was in our favour.

He is baffled.

We won the possession ergo it is some anamoly in the space/time continuum which caused us to lose the game.

But.....to the stat obsessive, it is merely a matter of sticking with the programme and all will work out in the end.

Because we did nowt wrong.

someone should tell him Chelsea won the carling cup with 35% possession and celtic beat Barcelona with 18%

 

[daz4matty]

Thanks for not dealing with any of the points that I raised or being able to say anything positive about why you support Mr Martinez.

Ever thought of a career in politics ?

He can't mate don't worry about it.
He just spouts his drivel and ignores good questions because he knows he is wrong

 

[CahillsCornerFlag]

Dave spends so much time on here writing long posts and replies that he must find it difficult to get on with his day job. Starting to think he's paid by GOT to stir up debate and keep traffic flowing, which he does marvellously by the way.

 

[jazzy]

I'm not davek, but I can have a go at answering some of these points.

Pre season was awful. He does show a lot of tactical flexibility with different formations. Set pieces are a major problem, and we need to buy a commanding centre half and goalkeeper this summer.
I think the players are ok with the system, but inevitably with defeats comes a scepticism.

I can't have the last point. Lots of players have come on under Martinez. Stones, Garbutt, Oviedo, Naismith and last season Barkley (though he has regressed) have all progressed.
Unfortunately what we have now is a situation where confidence is shot to pieces and players are playing worse because of it. This is a major worry, especially for young players and I have to say I do worry about Barkley within this culture.

What has he got going for him? Well when Moyes left I wasted some of the following
1) A manager committed to youth
2) A manager willing to try and play attacking football
3) A manager who would be more positive about how he spoke of the club (not moan about lack of funds)
4) Someone who would try and impose a set of values from top down.
5) A young manager who had time to build a legacy

I think Martinez still tries to do all of those things. This season has been awful and he's made lots of mistakes. In introducing new players, younger players and a different outlook eventually it was always going to lead to a conflict with senior pro's. Judging him negatively because the senior pro's have lost faith in him, is to me judging someone for an inevitable happening.

What he needs to be judged on, is how he moves on after this, and how he gets us through this. If we sack Martinez, we will get the same problem again. Maybe 6 month's maybe a year, maybe two years down the line. There comes a point when the honeymoon period wears off.
Martinez needs to move players on this summer and mould Everton in his own image this summer, and be judged on next season.

As has been said, we have an excellent nucleus of young players. I think they all need this season to end, a break to re-evaluate how to do better next year.

CITR - just a few bullet points to reply ;

1. Youth - no evidence that he is committed to youth . His continued policy of picking Barry and Howard when fit , regardless of form puts a lie to this.
2. Attacking football. No he plays possession football. There is generally very little attacking threat or options. He passes for the sake of it.
3. Speaking about the club. I would have given you this one because he has come across well but his continued , unrelenting positivity in the face of all the evidence is wearing thin and tiresome
4.Values . Perhaps I have no ideas what goes on behind the scenes
5. Building a legacy. What a nice soundbite . i imagine that all managers aspire to this.
6. Player development. Do you really think that Lukaku , Barkley et al are better footballers than last season and their game has developed as you would expect from young players ? Stones yes but none of the others- perhaps his coaches aren't up to it ? Arguably he has wrecked Barkley's confidence by not giving him a run of games in his correct position. I will totally give you that Martinez got the best out of Barkley LAST season

 

[neil999]

No Friend, its true.

YIKES! what the heck are we gonna do about this?

 

[D410]

I'm not davek, but I can have a go at answering some of these points.

Pre season was awful. He does show a lot of tactical flexibility with different formations. Set pieces are a major problem, and we need to buy a commanding centre half and goalkeeper this summer.
I think the players are ok with the system, but inevitably with defeats comes a scepticism.

I can't have the last point. Lots of players have come on under Martinez. Stones, Garbutt, Oviedo, Naismith and last season Barkley (though he has regressed) have all progressed.
Unfortunately what we have now is a situation where confidence is shot to pieces and players are playing worse because of it. This is a major worry, especially for young players and I have to say I do worry about Barkley within this culture.

What has he got going for him? Well when Moyes left I wasted some of the following
1) A manager committed to youth
2) A manager willing to try and play attacking football
3) A manager who would be more positive about how he spoke of the club (not moan about lack of funds)
4) Someone who would try and impose a set of values from top down.
5) A young manager who had time to build a legacy

I think Martinez still tries to do all of those things. This season has been awful and he's made lots of mistakes. In introducing new players, younger players and a different outlook eventually it was always going to lead to a conflict with senior pro's. Judging him negatively because the senior pro's have lost faith in him, is to me judging someone for an inevitable happening.

What he needs to be judged on, is how he moves on after this, and how he gets us through this. If we sack Martinez, we will get the same problem again. Maybe 6 month's maybe a year, maybe two years down the line. There comes a point when the honeymoon period wears off.
Martinez needs to move players on this summer and mould Everton in his own image this summer, and be judged on next season.

As has been said, we have an excellent nucleus of young players. I think they all need this season to end, a break to re-evaluate how to do better next year.

Pre-season was awful ? It was complete and utter neglect and negligence from the manager. The club should have had him bang to rights for that from the start but they choose to ignore it and look how that turned out.

 

[Goat]

YIKES! what the heck are we gonna do about this?

We have 2 choices, we can bury our heads in the sand and pretend everything is going to be ok, I call this The Davek.

Or

We can scream and shout and run around screaming about THE FIRE, IT BURNS, I call this the sensible option.

 

[MikeH72]

Can't stop laughing

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

The latest results are in;

 

[MikeH72]

This forum would eat itself if we went down

 

[daz4matty]

The latest results are in;

The fans are turning.
Just been on the NSNO forum and they have been very pro martinez on there but their latest poll shows they now want him out.
I have to admit he is a nice man and its sad really but arrogance is a bad trait to have

 

[jazzy]

Top quality post

 

[joey_macmo]

) A manager committed to youth
2) A manager willing to try and play attacking football
3) A manager who would be more positive about how he spoke of the club (not moan about lack of funds)
4) Someone who would try and impose a set of values from top down.
5) A young manager who had time to build a legacy

I think Martinez still tries to do all of those things. This season has been awful and he's made lots of mistakes. In introducing new players, younger players and a different outlook eventually it was always going to lead to a conflict with senior pro's. Judging him negatively because the senior pro's have lost faith in him, is to me judging someone for an inevitable happening.

he's made the average age of the squad older (it was before Eto'o anyway)

 

[davek]

*gets back...more pages of desperation of the plotters goes by....'NSNO are turning lads'....'McNulty just tweeted something lads'.....'some feller down the pub said he hears there's a board meeting lads'.......pfffft.....<waits for end of Newcastle game....Tick tock>*

 

[davek]

Even this poll, btw - that's edging up every time I see it...it'll be 50-50 by the time we play Kiev on Thursday.

Another failed Plotter project.