Yes or No: post WBA result should Martinez be sacked?

post WBA result: should Martinez be sacked?

  • Yes

    Votes: 238 37.4%

  • No

    Votes: 399 62.6%
  • Total voters
    637
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.


catcherintherye said:
In the end this sums it up best. I have always tried to avoid knee jerk reactions in all walks of life, particularly football. He had a fantastic season last season, which to me earns him the right to have a disappointing one this year. This also has to go alongside an acknowledgement that whatever manager we employed after Moyes was going to need time to put their own style and philosophy on a club that had had a manager for well over a decade. During that transformation it may have been a rocky road.

I have to say I have always admired both Everton fans and Everton as a club, as one that doesn't buck to modern trends. Football is now a huge commercial business and with the growth of social media has allowed fans to access the club and discuss things in a way that there haven't been in previous decades. This does however lead to a short termism, a "knee jerking" for want of a better word.

Having said that, having given Moyes the job and the job description of rebuilding the team it was an outrageous decision to sack him (note I said having given him the job) the same is true with Martinez. I would hate us to go sacking someone before they were given enough time to make it work. The way Chelsea conduct themselves to me is the opposite of how we should look to behave. At the heart of Everton is and should be a fairness.

Not only is it ethically sound, but it's the most efficient way of doing things. The costs involved in replacing a management team would not bode well for us. Also clubs who have continually changed managers have underperformed, it breeds an instability. In particular Spurs who have had a lot of managers haven't delivered much on their extravagant spending.

I remember at various times under Moyes when we had a difficult patch, there were those who wanted us to sack him to bring in the latest flavour of the month. Sometimes it was Coyle, sometimes Paul Jewell. I don't think either of those managers would have been as good as Moyes.

So yes, by all means people should be critical of Martinez. This season is not going well. But short of looking like we are going to get relegated I am not sure getting rod of him serves much purpose. By September next year, I will hope he has started to build a team in his own image though.
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I hope more people read this post. Right on the money.
 
catcherintherye said:
So yes, by all means people should be critical of Martinez. This season is not going well. But short of looking like we are going to get relegated I am not sure getting rod of him serves much purpose. By September next year, I will hope he has started to build a team in his own image though.
Click to expand...

A typical post of I am for the guy but as with so many there is always the qualifying remark attached as in this case see above. Heaven forbid we do not suffer the drop (I think we will miss it) the kind of remark irks me because basically the author is saying if we go down I will change my mind.. I happen also to agree with Seanjd, a good season before does not give you a bye to have a poor one after it.

There is nothing coming out of RM in terms of ideas to stop the rot, if there can some one please point it out because I have not seen anything except the usual guff coming from him.
 

It comes down to this - any bog standard manager, e.g. Allardyce, Pulis ,Moyes, Brenda, Hughes, McLaren, could get the present squad to finish in the top 7 without breaking sweat. Hell, you could even take a chance on a newbie like Monk or Dyche - at least they have an English vocabulary that stretches to more than 20 words.

Why is it then that we are staring down the barrel with the strongest squad seen at Goodison since the mid 80s?

This has nothing to do with 'playing style' per se. Its to do with basic management tasks such as motivating the players, instilling belief and self confidence, and winning games, all of which Martinez is seemingly unable to achieve.
 
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catcherintherye said:
In the end this sums it up best. I have always tried to avoid knee jerk reactions in all walks of life, particularly football. He had a fantastic season last season, which to me earns him the right to have a disappointing one this year. This also has to go alongside an acknowledgement that whatever manager we employed after Moyes was going to need time to put their own style and philosophy on a club that had had a manager for well over a decade. During that transformation it may have been a rocky road.

I have to say I have always admired both Everton fans and Everton as a club, as one that doesn't buck to modern trends. Football is now a huge commercial business and with the growth of social media has allowed fans to access the club and discuss things in a way that there haven't been in previous decades. This does however lead to a short termism, a "knee jerking" for want of a better word.

Having said that, having given Moyes the job and the job description of rebuilding the team it was an outrageous decision to sack him (note I said having given him the job) the same is true with Martinez. I would hate us to go sacking someone before they were given enough time to make it work. The way Chelsea conduct themselves to me is the opposite of how we should look to behave. At the heart of Everton is and should be a fairness.

Not only is it ethically sound, but it's the most efficient way of doing things. The costs involved in replacing a management team would not bode well for us. Also clubs who have continually changed managers have underperformed, it breeds an instability. In particular Spurs who have had a lot of managers haven't delivered much on their extravagant spending.

I remember at various times under Moyes when we had a difficult patch, there were those who wanted us to sack him to bring in the latest flavour of the month. Sometimes it was Coyle, sometimes Paul Jewell. I don't think either of those managers would have been as good as Moyes.

So yes, by all means people should be critical of Martinez. This season is not going well. But short of looking like we are going to get relegated I am not sure getting rod of him serves much purpose. By September next year, I will hope he has started to build a team in his own image though.
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*applauds.
 
Toffeelover said:
A typical post of I am for the guy but as with so many there is always the qualifying remark attached as in this case see above. Heaven forbid we do not suffer the drop (I think we will miss it) the kind of remark irks me because basically the author is saying if we go down I will change my mind.. I happen also to agree with Seanjd, a good season before does not give you a bye to have a poor one after it.

There is nothing coming out of RM in terms of ideas to stop the rot, if there can some one please point it out because I have not seen anything except the usual guff coming from him.
Click to expand...

I think if we looked in danger of getting relegated then the situation does change. In any such case we would be right to act. Kenwright did this well under Smith. It’s funny really with Kenwright I don’t trust him with many things but with managers he seems to have a knack of getting it right.

And yes, of course if we got relegated I would change my mind. My current support for Martinez is not solely based upon my love of giving managers time or the fact I love Martinez. It stems from the fact that I think in the long term he has shown he is the most capable of doing the job we require him to do. Based on the last 3 months that would be hugely doubtful, but based upon his 18 months here he has shown enough to me that I still think he can turn it around.

I think people who refuse to change their mind, or would admit they are never wrong, in any debate are a bigger problem than people who will change their mind given the evidence put before them. I have to admit I was sceptical about Martinez when he first arrived but I changed my mind and he won me over. This could mean I don't know much about football and while that may be true, I do also think it shows that in the end people's opinions are only worthwhile if they are willing to mediate them to the reality of what happens in practice. Without doing that, it becomes a vendetta.
 
L4Everton said:
Like Martinez, I'm too stubborn to even acknowledge there are things such as tree's regardless of being surrounded by the forest or not.
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I am not sure the wood for the trees argument really work mate. Nobody here is saying our current form is good. We are playing very poorly. We have also shown we can play very well under Martinez.

We need to improve massively on this seasons form next season. Under Moyes we went from 17th to 4th. An important part of that transformation was Moyes acknowledging where he made mistakes, but also the club letting it be known to the players that they didn't just get a manager sacked when they felt like it. The Club came through it stronger, and we haven't had problems with relegation since that season. Had we have chopped and changed at every opportunity I doubt that would be the case.

If we used to the woods for the trees analogy, I would ay I am firmly aware we are in the woods, but also acknowledging how that situation has arisen, and what the best course of action to get out of it is. That is different from denying it's existence (or the existence of problems facing Martinez).
 

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