Tactics Thread 2014-15

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HuddersfieldToffee said:
Bobby has said that he favours flexibility, "At Anfield we played the two separate systems, and no-one would be able to see the difference" he commented talking about the switch between 4-3-3 and 3-4-3.
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Alright so with a little movement it's possible to change seamlessly from a 4-3-3 to a 3-4-3 and back again without changing personnel.




A lot of people spoke how we built from the back last season when playing 4-2-3-1, split centre backs, advanced full backs, it's the 3-4-3 again but asymmetrical like @FTY showed.





So now we can switch from a 4-3-3 or a 4-2-3-1 to a 3-4-3 and back again at will.
The thing I find interesting is it's not a pure 3-4-3 with three natural centre backs like against City. The inbalance comes from one of your holding midfielders dropping deeper than the other and playmaking from there. Further inbalance comes from your left sided attacking mid who is actually right footed (Osman / Pienaar) and inclined to drift inside either in to the no.10 position, or deeper in to the sorts of spaces your playmaker (Barry) has just left. This creates the 3-4-3 and leaves tons of space for your full back (Baines) and no.10 (Barkley) to exploit.
The flexibility is immense and that's not even including the times someone roams from position, like when McCarthy goes on one of his rare runs forward and someone else drops in to fill in.
Reckon this'll be a great thread to dip in to over the course of the season as we see what little gems Roberto has lined up for different teams.
School of Science and that.
 
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Why don't we just make sure we get Traore back and lump it up to him as often as possible?
Let's face it, when teams are a goal down with 5 minutes to go, all they do is pump it into the box as often as possible. This is obviously seen as the best tactic to get a goal, so why not do it from the start.

I say we go the 5-0-5 formation
 
I'd go 2 at the back next season. Centre backs really aren't important to the way we play if you think about it? Gaz Baz does most of the defensive work, the centre halfs just pass it out... so I'd go...

Coleman Baines
Barry​
McGeady McCarthy Pienaar
Barkley​
Kone Lukaku Mirallas​
 

The discussion is getting a bit silly with people now proposing two full backs comprising the entire back line.

A well-drilled backline, which can switch between 3 or 4 on the fly is the key. Instead we should try to throw others off guard, like van Gaal putting Kuyt at left back, then right back, then up front in one game.

2014 is when the philosophy of well-drilled, universal players, playing "total" football finally triumphs.
 
Michael Tsui said:
The discussion is getting a bit silly with people now proposing two full backs comprising the entire back line.

A well-drilled backline, which can switch between 3 or 4 on the fly is the key. Instead we should try to throw others off guard, like van Gaal putting Kuyt at left back, then right back, then up front in one game.

2014 is when the philosophy of well-drilled, universal players, playing "total" football finally triumphs.
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I agree, players like Kuyt, Blind, Oviedo, Kroos, Müller are all universal who can use their passing ability and attacking play - regardless of position.

It appeared that football was becoming all about having players around the system, like Fergusons extensive squad players, fitting either to a 4-4-2 or a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-3-3. But Van Gaal, Jorge Sampaoli, Marcelo Bielsa and Bobby are proving flexibility between systems, sometimes in the middle of games can be pivotal to modern football. When suffering a defender crisis, Bobby played 2 defenders and a forward sweeper against Swansea to quite a decent effect. Football is more becoming about different systems.
 
Its all about the players you have available, and thats another way that Martinez differs so much from Moyes. Under Moyes, we played 4-5-1, thats it. It was a system that brought the best out of Cahill, so he stuck with it. Hence when Cahill was missing, he didnt know what to do. Remember the season he went to the Asia Cup, and we were all a bit concerned we could be in trouble without him since he was the only one scoring. Then when he was gone, it forced Moyes into two up front with Beckford/ Anichebe and Saha and we suddenly looked a decent side?

I think Martinez prefers a back 3. But obviously we have two brilliant attacking full backs, and quite a few wingers as well, so 3-4-3 wouldnt get the best out of us. But that 4-2-3-1 we play definitely suits us. I had an arument wiith someone over the summer about England playing the same system in the World Cup and moaning and blaming Baines and Johnson for everything that went wrong defensively. It didnt work with England, because Gerrard, Rooney, Welbeck and Henderson were never going to cover to allow Baines and Johnson to attack, or give them a bit of help defending, so they were exposed all the time. The difference is we have two very disciplined central midfielders who drop back and allow our two very good attacking full backs to go forward and not have to worry about whats going on behind them, and likewise the likes of Barkley and Mirallas are not wasted tracking back all the time when its not what they're good at. When we are on the attack, one of Barry and McCarthy tends to drop in as like a 3rd centre back anyway, and if one of the full backs bombs on, they will drop back into the full back positions, Barry to the left or McCarthy to the right.

That system works perfectly, and is our best system with the players we currently have. Its good that we're training with a back 3 too though, because flexibility is important too. We struggled last season any time Barry or McCarthy was missing, because the two of them are so important to the rest of the team. We played 3 at the back against City at Goodison for example because Barry was ineligible, and I dont think it really worked. Not saying we should never ever do it again, we just needed more work at it, as there seemed to be a lot of confusion in the defence about who should mark who etc.
 

Man United played a 3-4-1-2 last night against LA Galaxy, switching to a 5-3-2 later on. I think the best way to do it is to play 3 at the back against 2 strikers (as in the Man City game) and then 4 against 1/3 forwards.
 
We defended brilliantly against United in April. 9 men behind the ball and forcing Utd into mistakes. We didn't throw ourselves at them, we kept our position and waited for our chance to win the ball. The back line was solid that day and we defended as a unit. Going forward we was quick and hit them on the break. The players worked tirelessly that day.

As for this 3 at the back system Im not so sure. Call me old fashioned but I feel much safer with 4 at the back with the wing backs attacking as well as defending. I'd like to see a CM getting forward more and getting into goal scoring opportunities. Maybe we could see that from McCarthy this coming season?
 
Iron Mike said:
We defended brilliantly against United in April. 9 men behind the ball and forcing Utd into mistakes. We didn't throw ourselves at them, we kept our position and waited for our chance to win the ball. The back line was solid that day and we defended as a unit. Going forward we was quick and hit them on the break. The players worked tirelessly that day.

As for this 3 at the back system Im not so sure. Call me old fashioned but I feel much safer with 4 at the back with the wing backs attacking as well as defending. I'd like to see a CM getting forward more and getting into goal scoring opportunities. Maybe we could see that from McCarthy this coming season?
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Well the funny thing is, we normally aren't gung-ho in the same style as, say, Chile. We're a mix of defensive stability and fluidity. Barkley is naturally an anarchic player, as was Lukaku. They shifted around and brought space for the wingers and the full-backs. But the stability came from the McCarthy-Barry-Jagielka-Stones square which can turn into a back three with a forward sweeper up front. That's why the CM's don't attack that much, because the six other players rotate enough to attack. Martinez talks about the need for protection from counter attacks when attacking with wingers and central players. This is why he played with the back three at Wigan, allowing attacks with the cover of protection at the back.
 

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