2024/25 Beto

[TraffordBlue]

The way I look at it - he's big, strong, quick, aggressive and tries his best. There's a lot to be said for that, but as an actual footballer he's up there with the worst I've seen here. He *can* score goals, but it's like playing with 10 men most of the time when you're in possession and you can't carry a player like that in modern football. I've rarely ever seen someone so poor at holding onto the ball.

I think this is a common opinion held by fans when watching a player like Beto, but I disagree.

Beto is the type of player that is easy to single out for criticism over other players because he is a raw player who lacks quality where fans expect him to have mastered that part of his game as a striker - first touch and hold up play. Moyes did it with the Chelsea goal. Obviously Beto needed criticism for that but it wasn't just him at fault for the goal was it. It was 3-4 other players as well - disgraceful defending from the Midfield and Centre Backs.

I'd argue there are several other players who make it seem like we are playing with 10 men in a fair few matches they play. Patterson, Keane, Garner, Harrison, Doucoure and DCL come to mind.

Beto has other qualities that makes him an asset. I don't think we can progress a great deal with him leading the line but he would be a great 2nd option for the next couple of seasons.

 

[toffeeblue9]

I think this is a common opinion held by fans when watching a player like Beto, but I disagree.

Beto is the type of player that is easy to single out for criticism over other players because he is a raw player who lacks quality where fans expect him to have mastered that part of his game as a striker - first touch and hold up play. Moyes did it with the Chelsea goal. Obviously Beto needed criticism for that but it wasn't just him at fault for the goal was it. It was 3-4 other players as well - disgraceful defending from the Midfield and Centre Backs.

I'd argue there are several other players who make it seem like we are playing with 10 men in a fair few matches they play. Patterson, Keane, Garner, Harrison, Doucoure and DCL come to mind.

Beto has other qualities that makes him an asset. I don't think we can progress a great deal with him leading the line but he would be a great 2nd option for the next couple of seasons.

I am in complete disagreement with you re the defending for that - the team split into a "possession shape". CBs split and midfielders drop into positions to receive the ball - essentially it's all based on the trust that when you give the ball to someone they're going to be able to do the bare minimum, which is control it and pass it. The defence weren't at fault - Moyes tells them to do this and, for the most part, it's sensible as the shape promotes more attacking football (see what happened under the last regime where the back 4 stayed narrow and midfield was rigid - that goal wouldn't have happened, but we score far fewer). Essentially that goal was all about Beto not being good enough to play in a system which relies on him to be competent with the ball.

I agree there are others who are a problem. It isn't just Beto, it's just that he's the most extreme example.

 

[pfim]

I am in complete disagreement with you re the defending for that - the team split into a "possession shape". CBs split and midfielders drop into positions to receive the ball - essentially it's all based on the trust that when you give the ball to someone they're going to be able to do the bare minimum, which is control it and pass it. The defence weren't at fault - Moyes tells them to do this and, for the most part, it's sensible as the shape promotes more attacking football (see what happened under the last regime where the back 4 stayed narrow and midfield was rigid - that goal wouldn't have happened, but we score far fewer). Essentially that goal was all about Beto not being good enough to play in a system which relies on him to be competent with the ball.

I agree there are others who are a problem. It isn't just Beto, it's just that he's the most extreme example.

Correct. That's what they're told to do.

I think Pickford could have shaded over a bit more to prevent that, Branthwaite was taking away the right side of the goal, but that's nit-picky. The ball was in the very bottom corner, it was a great shot.

 

[Timbucktoo]

I am in complete disagreement with you re the defending for that - the team split into a "possession shape". CBs split and midfielders drop into positions to receive the ball - essentially it's all based on the trust that when you give the ball to someone they're going to be able to do the bare minimum, which is control it and pass it. The defence weren't at fault - Moyes tells them to do this and, for the most part, it's sensible as the shape promotes more attacking football (see what happened under the last regime where the back 4 stayed narrow and midfield was rigid - that goal wouldn't have happened, but we score far fewer). Essentially that goal was all about Beto not being good enough to play in a system which relies on him to be competent with the ball.

I agree there are others who are a problem. It isn't just Beto, it's just that he's the most extreme example.

Should they not be a bit more alert to getting back into defensive shape when we lose the ball and have the opposition running toward our goal. Midfield is a mess at times, no greater example as with Ipswich`s first goal a week ago, all the time a space in the world to line up a shot on target without a challenge in sight.

 

[toffeeblue9]

Should they not be a bit more alert to getting back into defensive shape when we lose the ball and have the opposition running toward our goal. Midfield is a mess at times, no greater example as with Ipswich`s first goal a week ago, all the time a space in the world to line up a shot on target without a challenge in sight.

I'd need to watch it back again, but the fact that Jackson picks up the ball behind our midfield isn't on the midfield really, it's the blink of an eye when that happens. I largely agree on the wider point re the midfield but if I'm apportioning blame on that goal I'm going with something like 90% Beto, 5% tactics, 5% midfield and CBs

 

[TraffordBlue]

I am in complete disagreement with you re the defending for that - the team split into a "possession shape". CBs split and midfielders drop into positions to receive the ball - essentially it's all based on the trust that when you give the ball to someone they're going to be able to do the bare minimum, which is control it and pass it. The defence weren't at fault - Moyes tells them to do this and, for the most part, it's sensible as the shape promotes more attacking football (see what happened under the last regime where the back 4 stayed narrow and midfield was rigid - that goal wouldn't have happened, but we score far fewer). Essentially that goal was all about Beto not being good enough to play in a system which relies on him to be competent with the ball.

I agree there are others who are a problem. It isn't just Beto, it's just that he's the most extreme example.

Thats on the others as well as it's a lack of awareness about team mate attributes. All our players have strengths and weaknesses.

E.g

Gana - shooting
McNeil - lack of pace, very one footed

Part of being a good player is adapting to teammate strengths and weaknesses and being aware of them.

You can't just play a pass and leave your whole half exposed and close the man down slowly.

Beto needed criticism but it was definitely not only him who should have been criticised.

 

[pfim]

I'd need to watch it back again, but the fact that Jackson picks up the ball behind our midfield isn't on the midfield really, it's the blink of an eye when that happens. I largely agree on the wider point re the midfield but if I'm apportioning blame on that goal I'm going with something like 90% Beto, 5% tactics, 5% midfield and CBs

The guy controlled the ball and had two touches. He just needed to pass it. Once he lost it, one touch into Jackson and he's between our two centerbacks.

Just pass the freaking ball.

 

[davids]

I am in complete disagreement with you re the defending for that - the team split into a "possession shape". CBs split and midfielders drop into positions to receive the ball - essentially it's all based on the trust that when you give the ball to someone they're going to be able to do the bare minimum, which is control it and pass it. The defence weren't at fault - Moyes tells them to do this and, for the most part, it's sensible as the shape promotes more attacking football (see what happened under the last regime where the back 4 stayed narrow and midfield was rigid - that goal wouldn't have happened, but we score far fewer). Essentially that goal was all about Beto not being good enough to play in a system which relies on him to be competent with the ball.

I agree there are others who are a problem. It isn't just Beto, it's just that he's the most extreme example.

I posted at the time, Pickford trains with him every day,what possessed him to pass it to him in the centre circle while he was marked knowing he's poor with his back to goal? As you say the midfield had dropped into position for a pass as had the two central defenders. So a pass there was the far more sensible option.

 

[NathDogg]

Just think where we would be without Beto, and let’s not forget, he was sat in an airport in January about to be sold back to Italy but for dcl and Broja being made of plywood.

He got more or less the same Dyche treatment that obrien did - fraud of a manager.

We shouldn’t even be thinking about selling Beto.

 

[Eggs]

 

[Blue Alert]

I think Beto should stay because he’s done quite well recently and why give ourselves the headache of replacing him. I also think Beto should go because he’s rubbish and we need a striker with a broader skill set.

 

[Timbucktoo]

The guy controlled the ball and had two touches. He just needed to pass it. Once he lost it, one touch into Jackson and he's between our two centerbacks.

Just pass the freaking ball.

At times none of our lot seem to be making much of an effort to receive a pass, some even look like they`re watching the game more than actually being a part of it. Beto seems to like to lay the ball off quickly, turn and run towards goal rather than hold the ball up.

 

[pfim]

At times none of our lot seem to be making much of an effort to receive a pass, some even look like they`re watching the game more than actually being a part of it. Beto seems to like to lay the ball off quickly, turn and run towards goal rather than hold the ball up.

He had Garner wide open. Just needed to pass the ball after one of his three touches, and then we're going forward.

They likely worked on this during the week in training. It's not as if Pickford just decided to go rogue and pass the ball to the guy. He was the focal point 4 times and failed four times, Pickford was livid, Moyes pointed it out after the match. He still needs to do the basics.

I'm out on this discussion, it's long since passed and the guy bagged a goal at the weekend. Long may that continue.

 

[DOMNOLAN]

He’s a striker that should be a given

Turns out it's only 3 other players in the entire league. He'd be the 4th top scorer over the course of the season. I know he isn't the best player, but if we bought a player who ended up as 4th top scorer, we'd all be rightly delighted.

 

[DOMNOLAN]

salah meteta and Isak who are on between 8 and 10 beto has 7 since moyes come in

Only 3 players more prolific than him. Wow