New manager

[JobForTheMoyes]

Saw some rubbish article mentioning Moyes and Benitez!!! But it did also say something about Carrick. What's his style of management? Seems to have done well at Middlesbrough?

Carrick seems more highly rated than his achievements justify.

 

[jceverton]

Carrick seems more highly rated than his achievements justify.

Yeah I think Mark Robbins has done a much better job with Coventry than Carrick. All things being equal he could have won the FA cup which would’ve been one hell of an achievement.

 

[Kevsleftpeg]

So why are you insisting on loyalty and gratitude for Moyes, then? I agree with your statement above but it's you that's chiding people for disliking Moyes and accusing them of disloyalty. He did well for us, then he did less well, then he snided us off at United. No loyalty from him, no loyalty from us. Balance. It seems like you may have your own issues with maturity.

When did I accuse anyone of lacking loyalty towards Moyes? That's just invented nonsense. I accused people of not giving sufficient acknowledgement to his achievements, for lacking gratitude and for under estimating him as a manager in comparison with unproven hipster alternatives. I never accused anyone of lacking loyalty. They are completely different things. He went to Utd and did what he thought was best for that club which is his professional responsibility. The same way we expect our managers to be ruthless towards their former clubs.

 

[windymiller]

Of the last 34 years nearly all of our best seasons and best football was played under Moyes and nearly all of our best players were signed by him. The club might literally not exist but for him. The ingratitude and lack of perspective is frankly astonishing.

When did I accuse anyone of lacking loyalty towards Moyes? That's just invented nonsense. I accused people of not giving sufficient acknowledgement to his achievements, for lacking gratitude and for under estimating him as a manager in comparison with unproven hipster alternatives. I never accused anyone of lacking loyalty. They are completely different things. He went to Utd and did what he thought was best for that club which is his professional responsibility. The same way we expect our managers to be ruthless towards their former clubs.

Highlighted the relevant passages.

 

[Kevsleftpeg]

Highlighted the relevant passages.

So I accused someone of "ingratitude and lack of perspective"? You know neither of those things are synonyms for loyalty right? Loyalty has nothing to do with it.

 

[blue to the bone]

Carrick seems more highly rated than his achievements justify.

Tbf you will shoot down absolutely every other manager other then Mrs Doubfire that you idolise irrationally

 

[windymiller]

So I accused someone of "ingratitude and lack of perspective"? You know neither of those things are synonyms for loyalty right? Loyalty has nothing to do with it.

Weird. So you having a hissy fit about someone not being grateful enough to David Moyes for regular wins in the 7th place trophy and not wanting him as our future manager was not borne of loyalty? My mistake. What was it based on? Love? Fraternity? The interconnectedness of all things? Please, enlighten me, oh mature one.

 

[JobForTheMoyes]

Tbf you will shoot down absolutely every other manager other then Mrs Doubfire that you idolise irrationally

Not true - I was all in on Carlo. I just don't think these flavour of the month types or unproven foreign managers are as good. He is a far better candidate now than when he was first appointed, and yet many people would probably be more in favour of an untested manager like he was at the time right now. Most of the time promising young managers fail, but Moyes proved to be the real deal.

 

[blue to the bone]

Not true - I was all in on Carlo. I just don't think these flavour of the month types or unproven foreign managers are as good. He is a far better candidate now than when he was first appointed, and yet many people would probably be more in favour of an untested manager like he was at the time right now. Most of the time promising young managers fail, but Moyes proved to be the real deal.

So he'd be your number 1 choice.
Out of anyone

 

[JobForTheMoyes]

So he'd be your number 1 choice.
Out of anyone

Not out of anyone, but out of realistic candidates. He's obviously a better manager than the likes of Silva, Thomas Frank, etc. He also has a unique skillset among current prospective candidates given he is an actual manager and not just a coach. His experience is vast and he has overperformed here in the past by quite a margin. Other than he's old and can be grumpy, I don't see what the negatives are.

 

[windymiller]

Not out of anyone, but out of realistic candidates. He's obviously a better manager than the likes of Silva, Thomas Frank, etc. He also has a unique skillset among current prospective candidates given he is an actual manager and not just a coach. His experience is vast and he has overperformed here in the past by quite a margin. Other than he's old and can be grumpy, I don't see what the negatives are.

Is he? One third tier European trophy in a 30 year career, is that the differentiator?

 

[JobForTheMoyes]

Is he? One third tier European trophy in a 30 year career, is that the differentiator?

Finished fourth during the peak Premier League era, multiple manager of the year awards, deep European runs at Everton and West Ham, got us into an FA Cup final. He even had us finishing above Liverpool on multiple occasions.

The idea that the only way you can judge a manager is by trophies is stupid. Moyes could have easily took the Celtic job and stuffed his trophy cabinet, but chose to operate at the highest level he could.

Lets face it, if he was a generic manager with no baggage most people would be keen to get him in.

 

[blue to the bone]

Not out of anyone, but out of realistic candidates. He's obviously a better manager than the likes of Silva, Thomas Frank, etc. He also has a unique skillset among current prospective candidates given he is an actual manager and not just a coach. His experience is vast and he has overperformed here in the past by quite a margin. Other than he's old and can be grumpy, I don't see what the negatives are.

I can't agree on a lot of that.
And out of interest you talk of other managers failing. Would you say he failed at Man united, sociedad and Sunderland ?

 

[windymiller]

Finished fourth during the peak Premier League era, multiple manager of the year awards, deep European runs at Everton and West Ham, got us into an FA Cup final. He even had us finishing above Liverpool on multiple occasions.

The idea that the only way you can judge a manager is by trophies is stupid. Moyes could have easily took the Celtic job and stuffed his trophy cabinet, but chose to operate at the highest level he could.

Lets face it, if he was a generic manager with no baggage most people would be keen to get him in.

He also relegated Sunderland, was a dud at Sociedad and started Man Utd's decline. We need to look forward, not back.

 

[JobForTheMoyes]

I can't agree on a lot of that.
And out of interest you talk of other managers failing. Would you say he failed at Man united, sociedad and Sunderland ?

Yeah, but there are strong mitigating factors at each job. Man Utd were at the end of the road as a squad and his record is decent compared to the managers who followed. Woodward was a dreadful CEO who ran that club into the ground. He didn't adapt to Sociedad, but kept them up in a relegation fight. He wanted to be a manager in a head coach model. Sunderland were basically in administration when he joined and they had been circling the drain for years. Stupid job to take.