2024/25 Sean Dyche - Sacked

[MikeH72]

That's why you call it 'steadying the ship' rather than 'powering the ship towards it's destination' though. At the time he came in we were looking like an absolute disaster zone, having stayed up by the skin of our teeth in 20/21 and then being 19th past the midway point of 21/22 having picked up 1 point from our last 7 games. If keeping us up, finishing 12th, and then being 16th at this point doesn't count as steadying the ship then we're really just not looking at it objectively at all. This is, once again, where it just becomes daft. Acknowledging that he's steadied the ship doesn't mean you have to start calling yourself a Dychette, you can still aim all of the valid criticisms at him while accepting that he's done that. Refusing to do it honestly just comes across a bit deranged.

If you’d told me in the summer that he’d steadied the ship, I’d agree. But it’s the middle of December currently and we’ve gone backwards from last season, looking likely to enter the relegation zone in the next couple of weeks. So the ship is very much back into choppy waters at the moment sadly.

 

[Lanolin]

34 goals in 38 games when Lampard was here in the prem, these are Dyche numbers at Burnley, and 0.92 average a result.

I like Lampard as a person more than Dyche, but that cannot be justified either, despite the way Lampard intended to play is generally better to watch.

Yep, and when you add in that the last 33 games of Ancelotti's time here went at exactly a goal a game aswell (yes I know it's cherry picking but we all know that we had that ridiculous start where we scored loads) and Benitez got 17 in 14, you start to see that maybe it isn't just this particular manager's tactical set up that's the problem. We have struggled to consistently score goals ever since we lost Lukaku, it's an absolutely enormous problem that the club just hasn't been able to solve. Dyche's preferred solution is to make sure we don't concede at the other end to make up for it - it's boring, can be painful to watch, and won't always work. I can see why he does it though.

 

[Marius57]

34 goals in 38 games when Lampard was here in the prem, these are Dyche numbers at Burnley, and 0.92 average a result.

I like Lampard as a person more than Dyche, but that cannot be justified either, despite the way Lampard intended to play is generally better to watch.

Honestly don’t understand how some posters can’t just admit they are both crap managers.

Dyche in the last calendar year has 10 wins. Lampard had 11 in a calendar year. They are both appalling records. Lampard was rightly sacked. Dyche will be rightly sacked to.

Dyche did well to get us as many points as he did last season, but that doesn’t excuse appalling records like that when we are nearing half way through the next season.

 

[Lanolin]

If you’d told me in the summer that he’d steadied the ship, I’d agree. But it’s the middle of December currently and we’ve gone backwards from last season, looking likely to enter the relegation zone in the next couple of weeks. So the ship is very much back into choppy waters at the moment sadly.

Yeah it is, very much so. As I say, probably the only difference between the Dychettes and the Dycheouts is their expectations of where this squad should be. For me it's slightly down on what i'd expect but not alarmingly so, for some people it's way down on what they expect. That's fair enough, it's all opinion and we don't know what would be happening in a parallel universe where someone else is managing this same bunch of players. Hopefully the takeover means we never need to find out either.

 

[windymiller]

The revisionism of Lampard's time here is properly odd. We absolutely did not look OK under him, we looked utterly shambolic for long periods. He was sacked after 23 games in all competitions and at that point we'd scored more than once in 2 of them. The unbelievably defensive negative Dyche then proceeded to manage it 4 times in the remaining 18 games and has done it 6 times in 17 games this season. That's not to say Dyche is good, it's just to highlight the complete absurdity of your take on it.

Fluke is obviously an unnecessarily pejorative way to put it, but yes to some extent 12th didn't really accurately show how last season went for us. Quite why it became the minimum expectation for this season despite that fairly obvious fact I don't know, but that's people for you I suppose.

The Lampard Vs Dyche arguments are a waste of time. Neither of them are very good. Lampard being rubbish doesn't make Dyche good and Dyche being a safety first dirgeball machine doesn't make Lampard's Everton some sort of flowing football machine. We need a step up in quality from both of them (and Benitez since we're going down memory lane), that's the critical next step. Then, hopefully, we can forget about all of them and this dismal period for the club.

 

[hallamblue]

Jep, it was an issue last season when we were mid-table for creating chances, but not this season, where the table pretty much is accurate to what we have showed.

I think one begat the other. I don't like Dyche but I think we missed so many chances last season that he's gone even more conservative as he's so scared we'll lose if we concede, which is generally true.

 

[Delargeinho]

Honestly don’t understand how some posters can’t just admit they are both crap managers.

Dyche in the last calendar year has 10 wins. Lampard had 11 in a calendar year. They are both appalling records. Lampard was rightly sacked. Dyche will be rightly sacked to.

Dyche did well to get us as many points as he did last season, but that doesn’t excuse appalling records like that when we are nearing half way through the next season.

That was mentioned enough, even by me...

Hadn't we 13 wins in 2023 under Dyche tho 47points in 38 games under him. That's a fair amount on what he took the team over.

It must be 8 this year. His main job is getting results, but this task wasn't satisfied with 37points in 33 games. A regress of 5 points over a 38 games season and we are not likely to get 2 or 3 defeats in the remaining 3 games. This also means the 2nd lowest after Wolves of any teams that played prem the whole year.

Given we have a squad that is as good as last year in the league comparison to aim for a rank in the top bottom half, not many arguments for a manager

 

[Delargeinho]

I think one begat the other. I don't like Dyche but I think we missed so many chances last season that he's gone even more conservative as he's so scared we'll lose if we concede, which is generally true.

It was a mix of both. We won't grow as a club as long as Dyche is our manager and DCL our main striker, but as it looks this might history in a few months latest.

 

[Marius57]

That was mentioned enough, even by me...

Hadn't we 13 wins in 2023 under Dyche tho 47points in 38 games under him. That's a fair amount on what he took the team over.

It must be 8 this year. His main job is getting results, but this task wasn't satisfied with 37points in 33 games. A regress of 5 points over a 38 games season and we are not likely to get 2 or 3 defeats in the remaining 3 games. This also means the 2nd lowest after Wolves of any teams that played prem the whole year.

Yeah I was giving him the benefit of including his cup games against lower league to bump it up to 10.

Sometimes, things stop working and he has shown he doesn’t really know how to change it. Will end in disaster.

 

[Delargeinho]

Yeah I was giving him the benefit of including his cup games against lower league to bump it up to 10.

Sometimes, things stop working and he has shown he doesn’t really know how to change it. Will end in disaster.

Oh my bad, I thought you spoke of 2023 with the last calender year.

 

[blueboy72]

Yeah I was giving him the benefit of including his cup games against lower league to bump it up to 10.

Sometimes, things stop working and he has shown he doesn’t really know how to change it. Will end in disaster.

Same thing happened at Burnley, started to go into free fall and couldn’t stop it, one thing in his favour at the moment and we will wait and see if this continues, but the gap between the prem and championship is getting bigger, it used to be 40 points guaranteed safety, it was 28 last season, could be the same this, I’d guess 33 and you’re fine this season

 

[twoblue]

I dont think any ship is steadied since he's been here its pretty much the same as the Lampard Benitez era, a good chance we could be relegated, before this year is up we could be in the relegation zone, thats not a steadied ship when we are in exactly the same place, the same reasons why Benitez and Lampard got the bullet and rightly so.

Over the last 5 years no team has spent less than us in the premier league.
We have made a net profit in this period.
The next club are wolves… they have net 50m more investment than us. Teams like Brighton who have attracted 100m fees selling to top 4 are still investing heavily on top of this income.
The teams that people think we should be beating have all spent £150m more than us in this time frame. Forest have pumps nearly 300m more.
We are trying to keep our head above water, “not kick on”.

Premier League - Transfer balance and five-year comparison

In dieser Statistik werden die Transferbilanzen der letzten fünf bzw. zehn Jahre der Vereine der Premier League miteinander verglichen.

www.transfermarkt.co.uk

 

[SuperKev91]

Over the last 5 years no team has spent less than us in the premier league.
We have made a net profit in this period.
The next club are wolves… they have net 50m more investment than us. Teams like Brighton who have attracted 100m fees selling to top 4 are still investing heavily on top of this income.
The teams that people think we should be beating have all spent £150m more than us in this time frame. Forest have pumps nearly 300m more.
We are trying to keep our head above water, “not kick on”.

Premier League - Transfer balance and five-year comparison

In dieser Statistik werden die Transferbilanzen der letzten fünf bzw. zehn Jahre der Vereine der Premier League miteinander verglichen.

www.transfermarkt.co.uk

This is it.

We’re doing everything we can to survive until we get the keys to Bramley Moore and the takeover goes through.

This squad/club has been in no position to kick on/capitalise on last years meagre “success”.

Look how much Palace have struggled this year despite being one of the best teams in the country for the last 2 months of the season before.

Anaemic ‘squad’ with no physicality, very little quality and a tiny bit of ‘nous’. We deserve better than this crap manager and these crap players but that doesn’t make either any better in the meantime.

 

[blueboy72]

Over the last 5 years no team has spent less than us in the premier league.
We have made a net profit in this period.
The next club are wolves… they have net 50m more investment than us. Teams like Brighton who have attracted 100m fees selling to top 4 are still investing heavily on top of this income.
The teams that people think we should be beating have all spent £150m more than us in this time frame. Forest have pumps nearly 300m more.
We are trying to keep our head above water, “not kick on”.

Premier League - Transfer balance and five-year comparison

In dieser Statistik werden die Transferbilanzen der letzten fünf bzw. zehn Jahre der Vereine der Premier League miteinander verglichen.

www.transfermarkt.co.uk

All valid points but you have to take a few things into consideration

I looked at this the other day I think Brighton have a debt of about 40 mil in that time, Bournemouth was about 115mil and Brentford was about 150, while we’ve made about 30mil. The caveat is at the start of that period I’d guess we had the 7th most expensive squad, maybe higher and the 7th highest wage bill.

So you have to factor in that and we’ve been a prem team for years, 5 years ago Brentford had just come up , Brighton couldn’t have been a prem team long. And Forest out the prem for 20yrs had to spend to try and compete and survive, Leeds spent a lot when they came up and eventually went down again, what have Ipswich and Southampton spent probably a 100mil and each both still look like championship teams. A 100mil doesn’t touch the surface for a newly promoted side, unless you have been a yo-yo team kept some of your best players or you have a brilliant manager or some brilliant young players who make the step up

 

[Lanolin]

All valid points but you have to take a few things into consideration

I looked at this the other day I think Brighton have a debt of about 40 mil in that time, Bournemouth was about 115mil and Brentford was about 150, while we’ve made about 30mil. The caveat is at the start of that period I’d guess we had the 7th most expensive squad, maybe higher and the 7th highest wage bill.

So you have to factor in that and we’ve been a prem team for years, 5 years ago Brentford had just come up , Brighton couldn’t have been a prem team long. And Forest out the prem for 20yrs had to spend to try and compete and survive, Leeds spent a lot when they came up and eventually went down again, what have Ipswich and Southampton spent probably a 100mil and each both still look like championship teams. A 100mil doesn’t touch the surface for a newly promoted side, unless you have been a yo-yo team kept some of your best players or you have a brilliant manager or some brilliant young players who make the step up

You really don't have to factor that in at all though, because we all know what a monumental mess we made of spending money. The fact that we'd spent a load of money on Gbamin, Bolasie, Tosun etc should have meant that we were in a much stronger position to start with yes, but the reality is that it didn't.

Brighton and Brentford are 2 clubs who were able to build from the Championship, they had an actual plan and were recruiting players while in the Championship who they believed would do well once they got promoted. It's the type of thing we didn't do when we could and should have, and in recent years haven't been able to do because we've needed to focus on the short term.

The fact that we messed up our investment years ago is not news, we all know it and it's been done to death - the only bearing what we did then has on what we're doing now is that it completely hamstrung us.