Why the Barca tactics aren't working for us

[LinekersLegs]

Its a sad day when such a sentence can be proffered to make people feel better.

I actually like it that teams like West Ham can have such a turnaround from one season playing dire football to the next playing well as overall I think it unhealthy that a few teams have such a stranglehold on the top places.

It will probably still work out that way this season as squad depth tends to tell over the course of 38 games but I'm enough of a romantic to like the early surprise inclusion in the top 4 especially when they have a manager like Big Sam who the previous year looked like he was going to be sacked.

 

[red1]

by the way pep guardiola hates the word 'tika taka' with a passion.

You don't really believe that do you?

 

[DualityNSNO]

You don't really believe that do you?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...aka-its-rubbish-and-completely-pointless.html

 

[Gwladys St. Glory]

 

[red1]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...aka-its-rubbish-and-completely-pointless.html

It's total BS, he's trying to appease the Bayern establishment. Pointless keeping of the ball without aiming for the goal is exactly what he instructed at Barca and Bayern in his first season until the likes of Beckenbauer, Rumminegge the Bayern big hitters basically told him to change be changed. At one point against us in 2011 at the Camp Nou, he came out of the technical area to blatantly instruct the Barca midfielders to hold the ball in the middle. The hand signals are easy to read. Wasting time by keeping the ball was actually introduced by Rijkaard.

 

[Walken]

It's total BS, he's trying to appease the Bayern establishment. Pointless keeping of the ball without aiming for the goal is exactly what he instructed at Barca and Bayern in his first season until the likes of Beckenbauer, Rumminegge the Bayern big hitters basically told him to change be changed. At one point against us in 2011 at the Camp Nou, he came out of the technical area to blatantly instruct the Barca midfielders to hold the ball in the middle. The hand signals are easy to read. Wasting time by keeping the ball was actually introduced by Rijkaard.

all day long, his style is half as entertaining as heynckes, and not as successful, the bayern fans have got on to this, he sacrificed the best cm partnership in the world in schweinsteiger and martinez to satisfy his own ego, even lowe was sucked in for a little while, then put lahm back at full back, has took over teams created by other managers, and been less entertaining than both, i'm waiting to be impressed by this baldy bell

 

[red1]

all day long, his style is half as entertaining as heynckes, and not as successful, the bayern fans have got on to this, he sacrificed the best cm partnership in the world in schweinsteiger and martinez to satisfy his own ego, even lowe was sucked in for a little while, then put lahm back at full back, has took over teams created by other managers, and been less entertaining than both, i'm waiting to be impressed by this baldy bell

I actually think he deserves a little bit of credit for Germany's World Cup win...he drilled the Bayern contingent on how to circulate the ball effectively. There was a massive improvement in Germany's play from the levels of 2010/2012 to 2014, you could clearly see the improvement in how they pinged the ball when in possession, especially Kroos...he basically gifted Germany their own version of Xavi. There is no doubt that Kroos has stepped up in his technical ability when Guardiola arrived, it's not a coincidence. I don't think Guardiola has anything to be ashamed of, I was massive fan of his tactics at Barca, it worked perfectly with the Barca players, I don't think Bayern's players are suited to that system as effectively so I agree it was foolish and arrogant of him to try to replicate the style.

Calling tiki taka pointless was a cowardly move by him and trying to disown his own system that he used for years and which brought him so much success makes me slightly lose respect for him to be honest. I'd rather him just admit that the style isn't suited to Bayern but I think he's too proud and maybe arrogant to do that.

 

[Walken]

I actually think he deserves a little bit of credit for Germany's World Cup win...he drilled the Bayern contingent on how to circulate the ball effectively. There was a massive improvement in Germany's play from the levels of 2010/2012 to 2014, you could clearly see the improvement in how they pinged the ball when in possession, especially Kroos...he basically gifted Germany their own version of Xavi. There is no doubt that Kroos has stepped up in his technical ability when Guardiola arrived, it's not a coincidence. I don't think Guardiola has anything to be ashamed of, I was massive fan of his tactics at Barca, it worked perfectly with the Barca players, I don't think Bayern's players are suited to that system as effectively so I agree it was foolish and arrogant of him to try to replicate the style.

Calling tiki taka pointless was a cowardly move by him and trying to disown his own system that he used for years and which brought him so much success makes me slightly lose respect for him to be honest. I'd rather him just admit that the style isn't suited to Bayern but I think he's too proud and maybe arrogant to do that.

to some extent maybe, germany where a far better team for abandoning his lahm tactic, and using their power and speed. Had reus been available we would have seen a further detachment from peps style. Kroos became less valuable as the tournament went on and schweinsteiger became fitter and was the real leader for germany, every man and his donkey had kroos in their team of the the tournament, but his star performces came in the group matches, when it really came down to it, schweinsteiger was their main man

 

[Brennan]

to some extent maybe, germany where a far better team for abandoning his lahm tactic, and using their power and speed. Had reus been available we would have seen a further detachment from peps style. Kroos became less valuable as the tournament went on and schweinsteiger became fitter and was the real leader for germany, every man and his donkey had kroos in their team of the the tournament, but his star performces came in the group matches, when it really came down to it, schweinsteiger was their main man

I'd say he was decent in the 7-1 semi final like...

 

[Walken]

I'd say he was decent in the 7-1 semi final like...

who wasn't, but the player that won them the cup was bastian, he was keane-esqe in the final, the driving force, kroos is top class, but for me the player that stood out was schweinsteiger in that tournament

 

[Michaelcoyb]

I think our style is unique. Go us!

 

[Steve Wigan]

It's okay to critique the tactics lads

Doesn't mean I don't like Everton. In fact, it's the exact opposite

Some of the reactions in this thread, to reasonable tactical concerns, have been almost head in the sand like

People can have a dissenting opinion from your own. Some people in this thread have contributed reasonably to the debate but others have dived right in and played the poster and not the issue. It's that sort of stuff that makes the forum an unpleasant place to be

Some people clearly haven't fully read the OP and the resulting comments that have stemmed from it. They've seen something that isn't 100% positive about the team and it's tactics and have risen straight away to knee jerk aggression

Not everything about the team has to be amazing or vice versa. Not everything is a black or white issue.

I fully believe that all five of my original points are valid ones. Does that mean I want us to switch to 2008 era Stoke tactics? Of course not! I'd much rather we stay the course but tweak the tactics. Indeed, the OP says I'm not suggesting wholesale changes or that I want them.

I truly believe this less than perfect start to the season has more to it than just being a case of injuries and poor individual performances. I think the better teams have a better idea of what to do to stop us. That's not to say our style won't work, but it does suggest that it's reasonable for us to try and be more versatile

Let's not resort to petty attacks just because someone has a different opinion eh? This isn't RAWK

Good managers must have their ultimate 'style' as their aim at all times, but the success of the style is dependent on so many factors.I disliked Moyes and his hoofball style with a vengeance but have to say that sometimes it worked. Betetr managers than Moyes are able to adapt, based on available players, injuries, and poor results. Martinez is showing that he can adapt and his recent more pragmatic approach has shown this. It is great to see that our manager is prepared to learn and at the same time keep his sights firmly on the way he wants to play. Traditionally Everton always played excellent state of the art football(hence The School Of Science) and we are getting back to that. Martinez knows exactly what he wants, but is prepared to be patient to get to the ideal. To me the signing of Eto'o was significant..not just for what he can do in whatever time he gets on the pitch, but also as a statement of Martinez belief in getting the best available talent to play the best football. Even though some of his signings might appear to be less than successful at times, each signing was bought with a particular job in mind, and with the ability to slot in to the team and know their job thoroughly. This is a long term, patient project by Martinez, and supporters must also go against their natural instincts to want immediate succes, and learn to be patient. We are in good shape, for early days into the project, and will become much better.

 

[AJC5]

all day long, his style is half as entertaining as heynckes, and not as successful, the bayern fans have got on to this, he sacrificed the best cm partnership in the world in schweinsteiger and martinez to satisfy his own ego, even lowe was sucked in for a little while, then put lahm back at full back, has took over teams created by other managers, and been less entertaining than both, i'm waiting to be impressed by this baldy bell

Beating Roma 7-1 away is not bad like.

 

[Verbal Kint]

Think the main reason for the problems this year has been the terrible injuries we have suffered, Mirallas, Coleman and Barkley have been huge losses. All 3 give us an injection of pace which is needed when playing this system, teams have sussed us out because they realise we no one with pace that can cause them problems behind. When they all come back I'm pretty sure performances and results will all improve.

 

[Mr. F]

I think it's a case of a team in transition between two styles of football and until we have an entire squad which is built to play the way RM wants.
While his style means we can dominate games more than we used to it is demanding especially for our second string, mainly because they lack pace or strength to do the job the same way as our first eleven.

We should be pragmatic though and work on a way to overcome the lack of depth and the negative effects that follows. That could mean that we use an alternate style for times when we have lots of injuries, in which we sit deeper and rely on counters or carry the ball up on the wings and cross like we did under Moyes. If we do that though it might slow down our effort to evolve our possession based style.