Phil Jagielka

[bicycleheader]

@butters is a woeful poster, one of the worst in our history, and a bog standard poster who is getting worse

 

[DanEFC92]

Thought Distin was worse.

 

[Big Fat Sam]

@butters is a woeful poster, one of the worst in our history, and a bog standard poster who is getting worse

Alright lad calm down ffs.

 

[Kev The Rat]

Phil Jagielka is a woeful captain, one of the worst in our history, and a bog standard footaller who is getting worse.

Think that's not far off the truth tbf.

 

[kenada_blue]

Obviously I understand the general moaning about them this season, but really baffled why they are being slagged off for this game. They played just fine IMO

There's zero organising from Jagielka. None. Him and Distin, even Stones today, end up flying into challenges and blocks in pure panic mode when any attack comes near them as they get pulled everywhere, drawn to the ball.

Any time the ball is in the box, its literally hold your breath time as they rampage about.

There were plenty of times today that any kind of through ball would kill us, and they picked out 1 or 2 today.

He's lost all confidence. And he's not a strong enough character to organise the defence and the midfield in front of him to cover himself.

 

[rochdaleblue]

Rather then picking individuals (although Osman was poor and Stones should be played at centre half) collectively we were poor today. The formation, tactics and and substutions were all wrong. So typical of Everton, when other teams have slipped up this weekend.

 

[edge]

He need a bit of confidence and a helping hand now and again. we are taking to long to get up the field and the number of times we pass it around the back with nothing in front moving needs looking at, as it just invites pressure and we just pass it back to Howard we then hoofs it , begs.
the question whats the point?
Howard needs to man up and control his area a lot more, useless at that at the moment.
Osman hasnt got the legs or strength to get back and lets players just run past him so needs to be kept away for a while till we firm up all over the pitch and are tactics need mixing up.
In short its not all down to him. thought myself he hasnt looked the same even before the world cup, but i think he will come good agian

 

[LinekersLegs]

Anyone can have a high passing percentage when you're passing it between each other on the edge of our own box.

Jagielka was alright today, think he's played well since the international break, looked like playing together with Baines and Stones for England, and then in two good wins for us has lifted his confidence again and he looks his old self. Distin is starting to look a liability though, panic all over the shop. Not directly at fault for any of the goals today, but just seems to ooze panic, and for a fella who has been so unbeatable in the air and on the ground with his pace for years, I cant recall him winning a defensive header this season, he's losing out to players who he used to beat with ease. Stones and Jagielka have to be the two at the moment, God only knows what Martinez was thinking hauling off Stones to play a midfielder there.

But they didn't just pass to each other - they made lots of passes to our fullbacks and midfield plus made themselves open to receive returns if the way was blocked forward.

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/statszone/8-2014/matches/755345

Which is exactly what they are meant to do when we play out from the back to ensure we keep possession. Would you prefer Jags to try Hollywood passes upfield that we only have a 50/50 chance of winning as none of our front line are particularly good in the air except (oddly) Naismith? How many times under Moyes did we see those balls come straight back at us?

 

[jinkyali]

Based on what today would you come to the summary that jags is a liability?

None of the goals were his fault!

So just because none of the goals are hus fault he isnt a liability?

Zero leadership
Out of position countless times
Lack of confidence
No communication
Panics all the time
Lack of pace

Need i go on?

 

[AaronTheBlue]

Should be removed from captaincy for a bit so he can focus on his own game if he has to play. Hopefully distin retires at the end of this season, great servant but time he moved on from us.

Need a proper cb who is left footed to come in and partner stones.

 

[Big Fat Sam]

Should be removed from captaincy for a bit so he can focus on his own game if he has to play. Hopefully distin retires at the end of this season, great servant but time he moved on from us.

Need a proper cb who is left footed to come in and partner stones.

Jan Vertonghen. Wasn't even in the Spurs starting XI today.

15/20m for him and he'd be a top player for us for the next decade.

 

[Smudge1985]

But they didn't just pass to each other - they made lots of passes to our fullbacks and midfield plus made themselves open to receive returns if the way was blocked forward.

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/statszone/8-2014/matches/755345

Which is exactly what they are meant to do when we play out from the back to ensure we keep possession. Would you prefer Jags to try Hollywood passes upfield that we only have a 50/50 chance of winning as none of our front line are particularly good in the air except (oddly) Naismith? How many times under Moyes did we see those balls come straight back at us?

Not at all, Im all for players keeping it simple. But its a skewed bullshit stat to point out our centre halves having our best passing percentage when they are doing it in a much safer area of the pitch. Attacking players like Mirallas will rarely have as high a percentage because of where pn the pitch they are doing it, and are generally under more pressure from defenders. And it also doesnt take into account that Distin had a 100% passing accuracy when he gave McCarthy a hospital ball that he ended up being dispossessed and allowing Palace an attack. Because stats can be skewed any way you want them to. Some stats really do speak for themselves though. One goal conceded (a worldy set piece) in two games where we have played with Jagielka and Stones at centre half. 13 conceded in the four Jagielka and Distin played.

Never been a fan of Jagielka as a partnership. Go back to Jags and Lescott, and what made the pair of them was their understanding of each other. Jagielka has never looked the same since Lescott left, and Lescott likewise has never been the same. Jagielka and Distin have for five years been two good individual centre halves, but never a good partnership, and they are now both getting on. And this isnt an overnight thing. For those who are saying we kept a lot of clean sheets last season, lets not forget that Distin and Jagielka both had spells out of the side with injury, and Stones played most of the second half of the season. Both Jagielka and Distin look far better playing alongside Stones than each other.

 

[deipnosophist]

Jags just is not captain material...and I think he knows it. However, RM will not 'rock that boat'

 

[Big Fat Sam]

Jags just is not captain material...and I think he knows it. However, RM will not 'rock that boat'

Yeah definitely

 

[LinekersLegs]

Not at all, Im all for players keeping it simple. But its a skewed bullshit stat to point out our centre halves having our best passing percentage when they are doing it in a much safer area of the pitch. Attacking players like Mirallas will rarely have as high a percentage because of where pn the pitch they are doing it, and are generally under more pressure from defenders. And it also doesnt take into account that Distin had a 100% passing accuracy when he gave McCarthy a hospital ball that he ended up being dispossessed and allowing Palace an attack. Because stats can be skewed any way you want them to. Some stats really do speak for themselves though. One goal conceded (a worldy set piece) in two games where we have played with Jagielka and Stones at centre half. 13 conceded in the four Jagielka and Distin played.

Never been a fan of Jagielka as a partnership. Go back to Jags and Lescott, and what made the pair of them was their understanding of each other. Jagielka has never looked the same since Lescott left, and Lescott likewise has never been the same. Jagielka and Distin have for five years been two good individual centre halves, but never a good partnership, and they are now both getting on. And this isnt an overnight thing. For those who are saying we kept a lot of clean sheets last season, lets not forget that Distin and Jagielka both had spells out of the side with injury, and Stones played most of the second half of the season. Both Jagielka and Distin look far better playing alongside Stones than each other.

I agree that stats can be distorted but your original point was that Jags/Distin just passed between themselves at the edge of our box which is clearly not true. Also, whilst Distin did make most of his passes in the "safer" areas of the pitch, Jags got forward quite a lot
http://www.fourfourtwo.com/statszon...yer-stats/7645/OVERALL_02#tabs-wrapper-anchor

As for the bolded bit, I presume you know that correlation does not imply causation? It doesn't rule it out either - imo Jags/distin were both at fault in previous games, just not this one.

As it happens I agree with you that Jags and Distin both look better playing with Stones than they do together and a lot of your other points in the 2nd paragraph. But that is more that I think Stones's willingness to go forward suits our style under Martinez than because I think either Jags/Distin are poor defenders which a lot of other posters are stating.

You however don't seem to be suggesting that, just a poor partnership, so apologies for leaping to that conclusion