Moyesieball

[Baines' left foot]

It's a brilliant film, I watched it a little while ago and really enjoyed it, even with knowing next to nothing about baseball.

Didn't quite work out for Libberpewelfutbulklub though.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Yeah but we're not Villa (or when they beat Liverpool this afternoon - we're not Liverpool)

 

[ToffeeDan]

Liberpool are using Monkeyball. They buy a load of sh1t players & one or two monkey faces (Kuyt, Skrtl, Adam, Spearing)..

 

[brownmola]

The only reason Moneyball worked for that baseball team for those few years is because they had incredible pitchers. The movie primarily focused on acquiring hitters however those pitchers were the key and kept the other teams from scoring a lot which allowed management to acquire crap offensive players for cheap because they had no money. Sadly, the biggest similarity with Moneyball and Everton is when the young and cheap pitchers are developed into an all-star level of player, they are then traded to other teams for cash/younger players because ownership did not want to pay them increased salaries.

 

[billycopper]

Just watched the film and immediately thought of us. Brad Pitt= Moyes and Jonah Hill= Round. It's uncanny!

 

[Connor]

Superb Film. Many comparsions to us in it if you read between the lines as an Evertonian. Kopites use it and look whats happened there.

 

[Kay20]

It is a good film mate. The conclusion to draw though is that the 'mid-table' team using the system might have a great season and go close - but no cigar. It's only when the giants adopt the system with resources to make the odd big signing that the system can win out and make sense in terms of honours won. A pretty depressing punchline this film has if you're an Evertonian.

That's a stretch.

The film is about using a new system to stretch the establishment. And the Oakland A's came 1 series away from doing exactly that in 2002, with a joke of a stadium, a joke of resources, and a locale in the Bay Area that is downtrodden. The team is a farm team essentially, and the success they had that year was MIND BOGGLING.

The point that Jonah's character makes at the end of the movie that making it to the divisional series and that being a success is something to take away.

In order to win the Champions League, you have to qualify first.

Second, I've argued this before, but the use of stats in the film is another major takeaway. I'm glad Everton is on the cutting edge of that.

P.S. And the way Liverpool spent - there is no way they are using Moneyball methods...yet.

 

[Nails]

P.S. And the way Liverpool spent - there is no way they are using Moneyball methods...yet.

That was John Henry's theory. He had money at the Red Sox (RS) and he has money at Liverpool (RS), but both clubs can't win the league to save themselves so he thought that maybe money + moneyball = success. Worked at the US RS, not so much at the RS. But the RS are using Moneyball, and what they planned is actually being put into effect (lots of crosses, lots of shots) but they just can't finish/play football.

 

[Kay20]

That was John Henry's theory. He had money at the Red Sox (RS) and he has money at Liverpool (RS), but both clubs can't win the league to save themselves so he thought that maybe money + moneyball = success. Worked at the US RS, not so much at the RS. But the RS are using Moneyball, and what they planned is actually being put into effect (lots of crosses, lots of shots) but they just can't finish/play football.

I just don't know if the philosophy can be put into effect knowing he came onto the team as transfers were being made. Plus, don't know if the office is supporting it either. It took Billy Beane to put it into effect in Oakland. Not sure a Billy exists yet at the RS. The entire org has to buy in. Not saying it'll work mind you, just that I think it's too early to say yay or nay in either direction.

 

[tsubaki]

Any system is only as good as the people who have to work it, which is why it hasnt worked so far at the RS (and why it has - sort of - worked at us).

 

[deliverance]

Yank sports are stop start affairs more suited to planning strategy than free flowing games like footy, stats are more significant in their games, according to opta the best midfielder in the uk is leon Britton of Swansea!!

Similarly it could be argued the best player in the country is the one with the most medals, which was (is?) liverpool's Phil Neal - a really moderate full back.

But as others have said what a f#ck up it's proved at anfield, you need judgement of circumstance and pure number crunching won't give you that - american spoofery for the "easy answer" deludes.

 

[Kay20]

I love how using numbers is "American." Try it sometime.

 

[deliverance]

I love how using numbers is "American." Try it sometime.

Remarkably I am qualified in "Quantitative and Qualitative Statistical Analysis" among other things.

Perhaps you are as well, why not try reading and comprehension next to avoid the "chip on your shoulder" point you've manufactured.

 

[davek]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/jen_chang/04/29/performance.analytics/index.html

Moyesiebollocks as far as I'm concerned like. These people leave me cold.

 

[njligernj]

It is no given that the RS will adopt moneyball considering the Red Sox don't follow moneyball at all any longer. The movie ends quite a few years back. They did indeed adopt some of the strategies (and finally win a world series) but on the back of that success they turned into Man City. They have started just spending as much money as possible and ignoring the principals of moneyball. Last year they had the most epic collapse in the history of baseball (if not all sports ever) and lost their playoff spot to a team that spends a tiny amount compared with them. If you want a team playing moneyball (or at least a modified version) then you want to look at the Tampa Bay Rays. They have almost no money and compete with the Yankees and Red Sox:

2011 (opening day) Payrolls: Boston $161.4m (they ended up with 90 wins) Tampa Bay $41.9m (had 91 wins)

Boston learned nothing from that experience and their payroll is even higher for 2012. They are in last place in their division -- Tampa (who did spend a little more this year to make a push but still nowhere near Boston) is in first (although it's insanely early in the season because they play a preposterous amount of games every year).

Boston has one of the highest payrolls in the league -- they are not doing anything close to moneyball and I wouldn't expect the RS to do anything close to moneyball. Henry just throws money at things -- there is actually no small irony in the fact that he is linked to moneyball from that hire because they are pretty much the opposite of moneyball these days.

Soccernomics is a good read if you're into this line of thinking.

Was a good movie though.