Martinez IN Thread

[sageyefc]

Why?

Man Utd sacked Moyes after less than a year - that didn't put off Van Gaal
Then there's Villas Boas at Chelsea, Spurs have had a raft of managers

Not saying I agree with the hire and fire principle - but if something's not working change it - Villas Boas and Moyes sackings vindicated that

Everton sacking Martinez after 1.5 years I don't think would generate the reaction that your suggesting - based on evidence from elsewhere. It's the nature of the game

Difference is we dont have the pull of them clubs, and secondly we cant become a fire and hire club because we cant afford to keep paying off managers and paying compo to get someone new in

 

[Legend Barry Horne]

Difference is we dont have the pull of them clubs, and secondly we cant become a fire and hire club because we cant afford to keep paying off managers and paying compo to get someone new in

So what is the threshold of poor performance that we'll tolerate?

It's the as yet unproven potential of Martinez that's keeping him in - backing him to come good in the longer term - let's hope that's the case and not that we're throwing Moyes' strong foundations down the pan

 

[composter]

IN : Roberto
OUT: Howard, Barry and 3 or 4 others replaced by talent that can play Roberto's style

Plan B = do plan A better

A pundit, think it was Hartson, was poking fun at West Ham fans when they were lauding their 'new' playing style earlier this season, making the point that Allardyce was playing the same style as last season, but this time with better players

 

[Legend Barry Horne]

Lol behave

Yep - he built on the Moyes foundations - we scored more goals and did really well converting draws into wins

However this year it's gone completely the opposite direction:

Goals for per game
2014/2015 1.2
2013/2014 1.6
2012/2013 1.4
2011/2012 1.3
2010/2011 1.3
2009/2010 1.6
2008/2009 1.4
2007/2008 1.4
2006/2007 1.4

 

[Stanley Parker]

But I think we'll have to send a reserve team to Kiev;

EL games Howard Hibbert? Distin Alcaraz Garbutt Barry Gibson McGeady? Barkley Osman Kone

We've been here before! Some fans are complaining that we went out the domestic cups in the first rounds we played. We went to Swansea in the League Cup the week before we travelled to Krasnodar. Roberto clearly did not want the distraction of two cup competitions. And he was probably right! He played;

LC Swansea Howard Hibbert Distin Alcaraz Garbutt Besic Gibson McGeady Atsu Oviedo Eto'o

 

[The Equaliser]

With all the understandable negativity swirling around I thought perhaps I should offer the opinion of a supporter who thinks perhaps now isn't the time to get rid of Martinez. Not yet anyway.

Its been an awful season. Made even more depressing by the hope last season gave us. A record points total coupled with the nucleus of a young and hungry squad. This season promised so much.

Its hard to pinpoint exactly whats gone wrong this year. An underwhelming front line, dressing room discontent, experienced players out of form. Niggling injuries, long-term injuries and a Europa league campaign. Most worrying though is a lack of a plan B. It still feels like our season hasn't started.

There is definitely troubles in the dressing room. Senior pro's have spoken out. Distin perhaps hasn't been the model-pro he's been lauded in the past. Baines, Howard, Jagielka, Barry have all had their worst season in a decade, all at once. Coleman, Barkley and Lukaku have all struggled with fragile confidence. You cant blame Martinez for being stubborn, yet not place any blame at the same group of players who were so good for him last season.

Looking through the Martinez replacement thread provides all the evidence you need to keep Martinez. Its an insipid list. Seriously, Joe Royle until the end of the season shouts are laughable.

What people perhaps need to realise is a couple of things. Firstly the squads approaching an over haul, the biggest its had since Moyes cleared the decks. This isn't Martinez's team yet. He inherited most of what you'd consider our experienced performers. I think the choices he makes in the summer, after this season, will go a long way to telling us whether he's up to it.

The second and perhaps most important point is that when we appointed him we got potential. We didn't get a manager in his mid 50's who's managed at the top level for 15 years. We got potential. Much like Moyes he's going to make mistakes and get things wrong. He's made mistakes this season, tactically, what he's spouted to the media and behind closed doors. But when you employ someone like that you have to accept that he's training on the job. Whether thats OK for a club like Everton is another debate. But if he learns and gets it right then you end up with a manager at a level you wouldn't of been able to attract in the first place. We gave him a 5 year deal in the summer for a reason, and NO ONE blinked.

If we finish this season 16th. Progress another round in the Europa. Then I'm patient enough to start next season with the hope that this season was a blip. I think its important that the players know that we are sticking with the manager in the medium term.

I imagine being a supporter of Martinez places me now firmly in the minority. I didn't think he was the second coming of Christ last year, but I also don't think he's the worst manager in the league now. So accept why people might want rid. But I dont think its fantasy that we have a good transfer window and get 72 points again next year.

A refreshingly civilised argument for sticking with him. A couple of points though:

1) He isn't training on the job. He is an experienced Premier League manager who has looked out of his depth at Everton.

2) He has the backbone of a great young side with Stones, McCarthy, Barkley and Lukaku. With the possible exception of McCarthy they look lost under him.

3) He doesn't and never will know how to properly set up a team defensively in the PL. This will be the case even with a few new players.

4) He's too nice.

For those reasons it is a matter of when, not if, for me. But I have no issue with anyone who doesn't see it like that. Now is not the time for the fanbase to be tearing itself apart.

 

[Zatara]

Players a year older.

Needs time to build a team.

Some disgraceful performances from players.

Key injuries

Young players in second season

Needs to sign players to fit his system

 

[davek]

Players a year older.

Needs time to build a team.

Some disgraceful performances from players.

Key injuries

Young players in second season

Needs to sign players to fit his system

Bill Kenwright, November 26th 2014:

‘If I’ve been good at anything in my life, it has been that I have been able to recognise talent,’ says Kenwright. ‘That is what I do. Was it difficult when David was having a bad time at the start? No. I believed throughout that, good times or bad, David Moyes was the right man...Kenwright adds: ‘The massive plus is that we have Roberto. He is so passionate, so extraordinarily dedicated in every way.’

 

[Alex Hindmarsh]

As soon as he gets out of the obsession of playing slow players, then things may turn for him and he can save his skin.

What do teams fear? They fear pace, especially on the counter, and it is the sole reason for Liverpool's big upturn in form for example.

Imagine what a dream of a day it is for players to face Naismith, they press high up on all our players knowing they don't have a turn of pace to nick it past them and turn. Easy pickings for ANY defence.

Our team is arguably the slowest in the league at the moment.

Baines? Lost a yard. Barry? Lost 25 yards. Naismith? Seen Neil Shipperley move more swiftly than him.

Besic - McCarthy
Mirallas - Ross - Lennon
Lukaku

Watch teams give the players a bit more space, because they know they can get turned in an instant, a much more worrying proposition than Barry and Naismith.

 

[Carl Hankin]

im with bobby.we will survive,just been a hard season,remember moyes 2nd season..

i like Naismith but he runs out of positions hes given,and exposes the team...lennon and mirralas have to be on the wings...barkley behind lukaku switchin with osman late on,besic macarthy, coleman,stones,jags,baines

 

[JTma]

Bill Kenwright, November 26th 2014:

‘If I’ve been good at anything in my life, it has been that I have been able to recognise talent,’ says Kenwright. ‘That is what I do. Was it difficult when David was having a bad time at the start? No. I believed throughout that, good times or bad, David Moyes was the right man...Kenwright adds: ‘The massive plus is that we have Roberto. He is so passionate, so extraordinarily dedicated in every way.’

Simple question, why don't you put as much effort in the Martinez in thread? It doesn't seem so far fetched that you are a plant to get people posting as you do seem to get away with murder.

 

[daz4matty]

im with bobby.we will survive,just been a hard season,remember moyes 2nd season..

i like Naismith but he runs out of positions hes given,and exposes the team...lennon and mirralas have to be on the wings...barkley behind lukaku switchin with osman late on,besic macarthy, coleman,stones,jags,baines

Moyes 2nd season we still had the walter smith cack players on the whole,martinez has the best squad we have ever had.
The tactics and his system is the reason we are were we are.
If its not working change it don't just stand there and think your better than everyone else by persisting with it

 

[Dario Terracotta]

im with bobby.we will survive,just been a hard season,remember moyes 2nd season..

i like Naismith but he runs out of positions hes given,and exposes the team...lennon and mirralas have to be on the wings...barkley behind lukaku switchin with osman late on,besic macarthy, coleman,stones,jags,baines

Lennon's not shown enough for me so far to warrant lashing out big bucks on him.

 

[sageyefc]

Moyes 2nd season we still had the walter smith cack players on the whole,martinez has the best squad we have ever had.
The tactics and his system is the reason we are were we are.
If its not working change it don't just stand there and think your better than everyone else by persisting with it

Half the problem, the other half is so many key experienced players have let the club down

 

[Stanley Parker]

Our team is arguably the slowest in the league at the moment.

The fastest Premier League player this season is Phil Jagielka. He hit a top speed of 35.99kph against Leicester on the opening day of the season.

Ross Barkley came eighth in the latest survey. In the Everton v Swansea City game on 01/11/2014, he was measured at 34.9kph.

Of course, they may have slowed down over the season - but other players may have too.