Harry Caterick or Howard Kendall?

[Gwladys St. Glory]

On a side note, at least nowadays all the matches can be digitized forever and it doesn't take up a lot of space to do so. So much of the past is lost to memory and that's a bit of a shame. Would be great to watch all the old matches with Dean, TG Jones etc, H/K/B and the 80's side.

 

[glorydaze]

HK as it gave me more pleasure and as stated above Catterick sold Ball too early.

 

[bcblue1878]

As someone whose first match was v Blackpool reserves in 1965 (aged 5) I was probably a bit to young to fully appreciate the management side of the whole thing but what I can tell you is that watching the 1966 cup final winning team, and yes I still remember it, then the teams through to the 69-70 Championship winning team was magical for me as a kid! To have seen the Ball, Harvey, Kendall thing at its peak was really something special! However the selling of Alan Ball to Arsenal saw it all come to an end!

The 70's with one or two exceptions, Bob Latchford and Andy Kings goal in the derby were highlights, were pretty dire!

Then the 80's and the return of Howard Kendall! Great times starting off with that back pass at Oxford! 2 League titles, God knows how many trips to Wembley, but what I would say the "football" was different, still great to watch don't get me wrong, but different! We played some great stuff but first of all imposed ourselves on the game before then going on to play the great stuff, typified by the Bayern Munich game - what a night that was!

Both great periods to be a blue, but to answer Mikey_Fitzgerald's original question I think I would on balance go with Harry Catterick, the reason why? I think the 69-70, the School of Science team would have beaten (just) the team of the mid 80's, and it was Mr C that bought HK Goodison!

 

[West]

Excuse the ignorance 20 yr old new toffee here. But the side of 69/70 must of being amazing loads of older blues rave about it

 

[OneTrueLegend]

I think it's a tough call. For me its Kendall, but not by much. I have recently read Neville Southall's Book and I am in the middle of reading Howard Kendall's book. I kind of wonder if either could be successful now. I suppose they were both products of their time.

Southall talks about Howard as being desperate during that initial time as manager of Everton (when things were not going well) and struggling to instil a winning mentality in the team, until a good cup run in 1984 changed everything....... He also talks about how ruthless Kendall was when he didn't want or like a player any more, but that he relied on team spirit quite heavily, over and above tactics and training methods.

Kendall says that essentially Catterick was a "cheque book" manager, he paid big money for the likes of Kendall and Ball and expected them to sort themselves out and didn't take the training sessions (unless the media or owners were watching), didn't really give team talks either. However the team seemed to want to perform for him, for a while anyway.

Regarding the situation with Alan Ball, Kendall seems to blame him, in part for the 1970 title winning teams' rapid decline. Apparently Alan Ball scored 20 goals during the title winning season and 2 the following season. Howard Kendall says that Alan was worried that he would burn himself out and stopped making as many runs into the box and didn't get into the positions to score the goals any more. Then there is the infamous training ground incident where Alan Ball indicated that the Everton players were not good enough to play with him, witnessed by Wilf Dixon and Harry Catterick. Kendall mentions it in his book, as does Colin Harvey.

I think if a modern player did that, regardless of how good he was, I think he would need to be sold.

 

[peteblue]

Excuse the ignorance 20 yr old new toffee here. But the side of 69/70 must of being amazing loads of older blues rave about it

It was lad. Probably the best footballing team Everton have ever produced.....

 

[Crete Boom]

Too young to remember Catterick so Kendall mk1 only by sheer ignorance.

Same as this so Kendall mk1 only by sheer Irish ignorance!!b)

 

[bluestevon]

Hard to say but only read about the catterick sides and saw the kendall ones, so out of that alone would say what i saw under Kendall was the best side i have ever sen in blue, bayern munich still goive goosebumps

 

[cosmo]

some great posts in this thread, shame I'm too young to remember any of it, but hopefully Bobby will be the next name added to this disussion in 20 years time

 

[CanadaToffee]

I'd agree with the general sentiment that the Catterick teams were (slightly) better. But as to who was the better manager, it's too close call.

 

[royalblue66]

When going to watch the 69/70 side the question asked used to be " how many today, do you reckon" ? Great great team.

 

[peteblue]

When going to watch the 69/70 side the question asked used to be " how many today, do you reckon" ? Great great team.

The night we won the league was the best night at Goodison ever. Nearly 60,000 rammed into the ground. Smacked West Brom 2-0..........Pure theatre......

 

[Royal Blue Jersey]

From the perspective of someone who lived through neither team, just looking back and picking up what I can from people around me, I'm inclined to say the 1970 team was better. I think they were more of a complete team. The Holy Trinity was something special

 

[banno]

Only caught the latter years of Catterick but they were a great team especially the Holy Trinity but I would go for the Kendall mk 1 team. They had more resilience about them and were also more consistent in my book but if you where to ask me who had the best team 'on the day' I would go for Cattericks team. Think Kendall edges it in the management stakes but it is a close one to call as are the teams.

 

[Eggs]

...I think the question relates to the best Manager as opposed to whether the 1970 team was better than that of the mid-80s. Colin Harvey always says that the mid-80s side (which he coached) wouldn't be capable of living with the 1970 side and I agree. That 1970 side was very special, but I loved the spirit of that mid-80s crew.
Anyway, regardless of who were the best side, I would plump with Kendal being the best boss. Its true that Catterick built more than one side, but he also had great riches at his disposal. John Moore's brilliantly steered us through a period when we were known as the Merseyside Millionaires. Kendal brought in the likes of Sheedy, Bracewell and Van den Hauwe to form the backbone of a team that not only conquered this country, but brought us a European trophy. The Catt also gets a negative for selling Bally.
Both great Everton managers though.