Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

Martinez in or out?

  • In

  • Out

  • Getting splinters eating cheese on toast on the fence


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This is not a case of desire for instant gratification. 3 years isn't exactly the 9 months Utd fans gave Moyes, for example.

Results in this poll and the world outside it (other fanclubs/fanbases) started leaning heavily towards the "no" vote in the last 2 or so months, coincidentally the same time we won 3 on the bounce (IIRC?), mostly because it's taken him too long to see his own mistakes - Howard was in goal for about 5 months longer than he should've been, based on 0 good games last season and -1 good game this season, then he kept playing Kone for some reason, then he gave Mirallas a new contract just to leave him on the bench, and now Deulofeu can't play because we're obeying this problematic 1-winger-rule, where if we have two the world will likely explode, so we're better off shoehorning Cleverley in as a winger-thing apparently, and he's terrible at it.

He's probably gonna fix his stupidly bad defence in about 3 years time at this rate, unless something drastic happens and Moshiri/Kenwrong/aliens tell him to either fix that, or do one. The man is an absolute arsehat when it comes to using common sense and his eyes, it would seem.

Plus patience is running thin because of bad results. Yeah, we finished on record high points, well done Boberto, you rule. Oh, but what did we do with that the season after? Yup, early exits from all domestic cups, and shot ourselves in the foot in the Europa league, as well as finishing 11th... and he blamed it on the Europa and "not enough time to prepare because of the world cup" (?! as if it was only us that started then, with our 4 or so national team players at the time who actually played). We played some utter crap along the way as well.

Roll in season #3 - even worse league form, but oh well at least we're in the semi finals of both cups now! But our chances of winning the cup right now are the same as finishing 15th - a possibility, not a given. If results go our way we can also be circa 10th/just about top half, after sitting for most the year in the bottom half and just about scraping the so-coveted "top half finish". Our home form has been terrible and who's to blame - is it turd football and inability to preserve a score? No, it's the fans. Defo the fans. Oh and refs lads, them as well.

I'm fairly sure if Bob started saying and doing the right things again people won't be on his back - admit a mistake, make the right sub, do that game management thing from the 1st season, which is a far-gone and forgotten dream at this point. When he does even one of those things he gets praise, and it's quite obvious why - Evertonians aren't daft, we can see when something's done right. Thing is though, 1 time in 10 games isn't really a promising ratio of good things vs games is it? If this was his first season, then yeah - this is semi-acceptable, we might be building something, it will all click on soon... You gotta understand though, this is the man's third season, and for 2 of the last 3 years we've gone backwards, regressing further down the table. Yeah, we can win a cup, well done Boberto, but ultimately if someone looks at the league they're gonna go "well they clearly fluked a win, a-la *insert team that won then got shat on here* and look like they'd be relegated in a few years".

And how are people finding the place we are at even remotely acceptable is beyond me. We have Baines, Stones, Barkley, Lukaku, Jagielka (CAPTAIN), Coleman, McCarthy, McGeady (err... yeah, we have him right now I guess), Mirallas, Funes Mori, and even Tim Howard and Gibson - international footballers, one of them the second captain of England, and you can't win a game against the likes of Norwich or Bournemouth? At home?! Or you can't set up a defence consisting of England's finest young defender, allegedly, and Jagielka, who's been solid for about 7 years now? Or if either is not playing - another international defender in Funes Mori? Absolute laugh, that. Just like the voluntary ignoring of set pieces and their importance in the game, or lack of pressing, or slow tempo, or bad/wrong subs, or subs in the 89th minute, or... etc., you get my drift here anyway - it's not only ONE thing. The alarm bells for that were ringing in the first season as well, with some questionable decisions, but we were winning games, as the defence was still Moyes-esque, and we did ride our luck in a LOT of situations.

Bottom line, he's treading on a lot of people's nerves, and he keeps saying and doing wrong things, which doesn't help him at all. As a result - our home and overall league form is suffering, but Evertonians want a trophy, so we will naturally get up for the cup, as we want it that bad, and it's already in the later stages of it. If he doesn't deliver on that - he should just resign while people aren't out for his head.

Well written and thoughtful. So it's 24 months instead of the 9 Moyes was given at United then. Lets not forget the first season when even massive plotters like @ianefc were piped right down.

Confirms everything I've said.

Change...regardless of future results is the only way I see fans getting behind the manager.

We have a load of fans that will accept nothing less than a change regardless of the Cup result. Sadly I think that is our only path to repairing a fractured fan base. We can't enter another season of fume on demand support at Goodison.

Nothing good comes from it.
 
Well written and thoughtful. So it's 24 months instead of the 9 Moyes was given at United then. Lets not forget the first season when even massive plotters like @ianefc were piped right down.

Confirms everything I've said.

Change...regardless of future results is the only way I see fans getting behind the manager.

We have a load of fans that will accept nothing less than a change regardless of the Cup result. Sadly I think that is our only path to repairing a fractured fan base. We can't enter another season of fume on demand support at Goodison.

Nothing good comes from it.
Far from confirming your "instant gratification" point, with all due respect. And last time I checked 3 years is not 24 months - I personally can't do a Dave and look only at the first season, per se, and I'll look at all of them instead. As I said, even then sometimes we clearly rode our luck, and in certain games relied on players rather than the team (I know it's not the most sensible way to say it, but you know what I mean like). And even if we use 24 - since when is 2 years not acceptable? This isn't Walter years, it's 2016 and we're no longer skint, and weren't even before Moshiri. In fact, the season we did best in was still one of those where we didn't have a lot of money - TV revenue has increased massively since Roberto's first season, so money is literally the last issue. We no longer need/want/should want a manager that can get us the 7th Place Trophy, and instead go for one that can actually get CL, considering the team and actual potential we have. Yes expectations have raised, but is it unreasonable? And people gave him last year and wrote it off as "getting his own team in", so to say - so far that's proven to be worse than actually not doing that, which I find really funny lol

Personally I was beyond happy with the first season, but with a hint of caution - it's just that our "luck" in the first season ran out then, and since - wins by a goal became draws, and sometimes a loss, and so on. Maybe teams found us out, maybe they just know how to play against us now - either way it's all up to the manager to change, and he's not changing, as it's not part of his philosophy...

He has adapted semi-okay in the league with regard to playing the right type of football away from home though - quick and on the counter, when not on the counter - quick and loads of movement. We seem to be unable to play like that (the second variation at least) at home though, which is a shame. We go to Goodison, we're back to being sluggish and reliant on Lukaku/Barkley/Del (if he's on) to create something out of nothing (as BroWnZ pointed out in his excellent thread - hope for something to happen by being chaotic), and most teams know to double up on them and shut us down.
 
Average points per season for first three seasons. Harvey 61, Kendal 57, Smith 45, Moyes 53. If Everton get 12 points from the last 9 games Martinez average would be 56.
Who gives a toss about this stat mate? You are only as good as your last three games are...and the picture is rather bleak..
 
Martinez has complained about the timing of this international break, and has called the games pointless. I completely agree with him on that one.

Perhaps this is someone who is itching to correct the current malaise of our league form?
 
What is all of this nonsense about "entitlement" and "fractured fan base" ?

Two thirds of those polled are unhappy with the team and manager, and feel it is time for a change. That is a clear majority, which seems to apply to match-going fans as well.

It has nothing to do with the need for instant gratification, especially for old-stagers like myself. I'm still a mad blue despite decades of under-achievement. I just don't think Roberto has it in him to turn things around.
 

Keep thinking back to @The Esk's poll about what is most important to us in any takeover of the club. I was really impressed by how many posters rated preserving "our values." Would be curious what they are. Is it just nsno? For me, there is also a certain loyalty to servants of the club and its history. Firing a manager after he wins us the first piece of silverware in 20 years is not Everton. And unlike @ilikecheese I am willing to accept a fractured fanbase if that fanbase is entitled and is acting like a fanbase who thinks football was invented by Sky and the only things that matters is Champions League.
Loyalty is part of it for me and I don't think there's a chance we'll sack Martinez while we are in a comfortable position and we are attracting decent players. I can see us lining up someone who'll work on squad in a similar way and is an obvious upgrade, but that won't be happening for awhile.

The only equivalent of them sacking Martinez in my time watching would be Colin Harvey and that took a disastrous start to a season.

His record isn't even close to that of Walker or Smith, the football is nowhere near as bad either. And it's strange to me that people want to separate off the quality of the squad from the person who is assembling it.

It's just wishful thinking from some people that investment has arrived despite rather than partly because of Martinez. They'll want any transfer budget to have an eye on development and he's proved himself enough for me in that department.
 
Martinez has complained about the timing of this international break, and has called the games pointless. I completely agree with him on that one.

Perhaps this is someone who is itching to correct the current malaise of our league form?

His next excuse is ready and raring to go.
 
What is all of this nonsense about "entitlement" and "fractured fan base" ?

Two thirds of those polled are unhappy with the team and manager, and feel it is time for a change. That is a clear majority, which seems to apply to match-going fans as well.

It has nothing to do with the need for instant gratification, especially for old-stagers like myself. I'm still a mad blue despite decades of under-achievement. I just don't think Roberto has it in him to turn things around.

"Instant gratification" and not wanting to see us rapidly decline season upon season, are two massively different things
 

Martinez has complained about the timing of this international break, and has called the games pointless. I completely agree with him on that one.

Perhaps this is someone who is itching to correct the current malaise of our league form?

He'll probably use it as an excuse for the player being tired or out of sync with his phenomenal tactics.
 
Just going back to the percentages of managers and Martinez being 3rd since 1948 in win ratios. I feel it should be said that some of the managers, Kendal 2&3, Walker, Smith, Moyes, even Harvey to a degree were pretty hamstrung and working under terrible conditions with pretty dire squads.

Moyes changed all that and Martinez had at least a decent squad when he took over. The crazy thing is He HAS improved the squad, no doubt about it and yet we are sliding further down the League so it's not really good comparison in his favour in my eyes. Coupled with most of it came 2 seasons ago.
 
Martinez has complained about the timing of this international break, and has called the games pointless. I completely agree with him on that one.

Perhaps this is someone who is itching to correct the current malaise of our league form?

I don't agree on the pointless thing. Timing perhaps is a bit weird but definitely not pointless.

but I understand not everyone appreciates international football.
 
Just going back to the percentages of managers and Martinez being 3rd since 1948 in win ratios. I feel it should be said that some of the managers, Kendal 2&3, Walker, Smith, Moyes, even Harvey to a degree were pretty hamstrung and working under terrible conditions with pretty dire squads.

Moyes changed all that and Martinez had at least a decent squad when he took over. The crazy thing is He HAS improved the squad, no doubt about it and yet we are sliding further down the League so it's not really good comparison in his favour in my eyes. Coupled with most of it came 2 seasons ago.

...and therein lies the rub eh.
 

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