How long did Moyes hold us back for ?

[weaf]

I'll always be grateful for what he did for us. I remember how dire we were for years, he turned the club around...I think that achievement will be the crowning moment of his career. He can be tactically naive and he's been found out at Utd. We would have never moved up to the next level with Moyes, he's a Europa level manager at best. Thanks for some good memories Davie but I'm glad you're gone.

 

[deipnosophist]

Moyes is a limited manager. Some things he does well and others he cannot do at all. He took Everton as far as he could (probably 3 seasons ago). At Untied he can only take them backwards til they reach an equilibrium at that point where Everton could only have got as good as (under him). We are evidencing that this season. His days at Man U are numbered. He needs to go to Newcastle or Villa

 

[Kurt.]

David Moyes is a football genius

 

[Librarian]

I think he his heart wasn't fully in it for some time. You have to factor in who might have replaced him at earlier junctures though

 

[TippEverton]

Don't like the man to say the least, but i'd ask this question of our current board long before i'd ask it of him.

Don't think it can be understated how well Roberto has done since becoming our manager, but ultimately he will need support from them if we are to push on again these next few years, here's hoping.

 

[Ihaters]

pretty sure that's the definition of holding back tbh.

No it isn't, holding us back would be making us worse or just about where we should be, selling players and still progressing from 8th to 7th to 6th is not holding us back, we were still progressing and getting in quality players despite more negative spending whilst those around spent large.
Just because Martinez improved us more, doesn't mean Moyes wasn't improving us beyond an average managers capabilities.

If it was that easy, and Moyes was that bad, everyone would be building teams better than ours and we'd be bottom half of the table or worse. We certainly wouldn't of been improving if he had lost heart as some people seem to think.

Moyes was good, Martinez is god. Martinez doing so well doesn't mean Moyes didn't do well himself, just not as well. Certainly he didn't hold us back.

 

[Tubey]

For about three to four years.

 

[toffee matt]

Moyes lost the plot after the cup final season, that's when he began to believe he was biggest than the club

 

[4737carlin]

Don't like the man to say the least, but i'd ask this question of our current board long before i'd ask it of him.

Don't think it can be understated how well Roberto has done since becoming our manager, but ultimately he will need support from them if we are to push on again these next few years, here's hoping.

Sorry mate but i dont agree with that at all. When we were stuck with Moyes all the moron did was praise Kenwright, Roberto isnt having a problem doing well for Everton under Billyboy.
If anything how useless Moyes was went un-noticed because too may of ouf fans turned a blind eye to the actual football and his lack of tactics because they only focused on Kenwright.

 

[toffeejack]

No it isn't, holding us back would be making us worse or just about where we should be, selling players and still progressing from 8th to 7th to 6th is not holding us back, we were still progressing and getting in quality players despite more negative spending whilst those around spent large.
Just because Martinez improved us more, doesn't mean Moyes wasn't improving us beyond an average managers capabilities.

If it was that easy, and Moyes was that bad, everyone would be building teams better than ours and we'd be bottom half of the table or worse. We certainly wouldn't of been improving if he had lost heart as some people seem to think.

Moyes was good, Martinez is god. Martinez doing so well doesn't mean Moyes didn't do well himself, just not as well. Certainly he didn't hold us back.

i do say nobody should be improving us on our budget, but martinez has had a minus £13m net spend and improved us dramatically within a few months. i just think we haven't really done anything in the last 3 seasons, we've had the players to do better, but his decision making and transfer dealings in january windows sort of held us back from taking that next step.

if a manager can improve us without spending a significant amount of money, then surely it means a manager who hasn't done that for a few years is holding us back to a degree?

 

[TippEverton]

Sorry mate but i dont agree with that at all. When we were stuck with Moyes all the moron did was praise Kenwright, Roberto isnt having a problem doing well for Everton under Billyboy.
If anything how useless Moyes was went un-noticed because too may of ouf fans turned a blind eye to the actual football and his lack of tactics because they only focused on Kenwright.

I agree with you in the main and always felt Moyes was far from the managerial, tactical genius he was often portrayed as due to our lack of investment, but do you think if we have the same level of net spend on players in the next 5 years as we have the last 5 that we can or will be closer to the top under Roberto. I genuinely don't think so mate.

Comes across as me doing a bit of board bashing now which maybe should be done in another thread.

 

[Ihaters]

i do say nobody should be improving us on our budget, but martinez has had a minus £13m net spend and improved us dramatically within a few months. i just think we haven't really done anything in the last 3 seasons, we've had the players to do better, but his decision making and transfer dealings in january windows sort of held us back from taking that next step.

if a manager can improve us without spending a significant amount of money, then surely it means a manager who hasn't done that for a few years is holding us back to a degree?

Not really, most managers would of taken us backwards under those financial restraints. We went forwards in each of those seasons.
That Martinez has been exceptional, doesn't mean Moyes wasn't very good.

If Moyes was simply average or held us back, the other average managers who spent more would of overtaken us wouldn't they?

 

[Khalekan]

pretty sure that's the definition of holding back tbh.

Yip.

In football to stand still is to move backwards.

And Moyes was sullenly going through the motions at EFC since circa 2010.

 

[EFCPaul]

Moyes did a great job for the first 7-8 years. After the '09 final though I think his heart went and he mentally gave up. From there he was just coasting and picking up a wage whilst on the pitch we fell into mediocrity.

From 2011-2013 we did not make any step forwards as a club, we just stagnated. Not all of it was his fault (looking at you Kenwright) but a lot of it was. He wouldn't change his style, he wouldn't drop players who were hopeless (looking at you Phil) and wouldn't learn from past mistakes.

In this season alone we've made very clear steps forward. We may end up finishing outside the top 4 again but it's still a season to be very proud of. We've played great football, we've shown new confidence and we've won a lot of games we wouldn't have managed too in seasons gone by. Had we played like this last season, we would have gotten fourth, no doubt. Just this season all the teams bar United improved dramatically, the RS the prime example.

Moyes is a manager who's methods and beliefs are being left behind by the modern game. Everton fell behind because we kept him too long, but now he's gone we're starting to catch up again.

 

[toffeejack]

Not really, most managers would of taken us backwards under those financial restraints. We went forwards in each of those seasons.
That Martinez has been exceptional, doesn't mean Moyes wasn't very good.

If Moyes was simply average or held us back, the other average managers who spent more would of overtaken us wouldn't they?

i've never said the job he done was average or anything. i only feel he stagnated in the last couple of seasons where we kept getting into positions to improve i.e. qualify for europe and we just didn't. he kept bottling it due to his management skills only. nothing to do with net spend or the players he had available.

i think the fact that martinez has shown that we can be improved under the same circumstances means that he did hold us back in a way, the same way, as you say, another manager would have made us worse.

stagnation is holding back, because it's not achieving the maximum potential.