What do we require from our manager / football team?

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Cometh the hour, cometh the armband

285 pages of credentials can be found here https://www.grandoldteam.com/forum/threads/paulo-fonseca.99695/

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I'd like someone with demonstrable passion, and a bit of snide.

If we can't attract someone within the elite bracket, and we cannot, then someone with a record of at least relative achievement in the clubs they have been at, and at an appropriate level within the major European leagues. I'd be wary of appointing someone from South America with no such experience, even if they were successive Copa winners or such like that.

You couldn't rule out someone with relegation on their CV, as a manager can take on a job at a bad time and with no backing, but there would need to be clear and recognisable achievements to counter that, at all of their other jobs. There has to be some pattern to show they can come in and bring improvement season on season.

I would like someone with a good record over the last decade or so, rather than good things being spread over a longer career that has both good and bad and doesn't suggest any consistency. Koemans record was rather like that, he failed any time he stepped up in one of the major leagues.
 
I'll get slapped down for this and I get why cause he's a million miles from Mourinho et al, but Chris Wilder would be someone I would like to see interviewed.

His achievements with the blades are remarkable. I loved his response the other day when someone praised his side for working hard, he effectively said 'so what? That's the bare minimum required I'm not praising someone for the bare minimum'. I think that's an example of a winning mentality, his innovative centre-back formation is evidence of tactical creativity, two promotions in three years shows his methods are working and he can reshape a team. Now he's doing well in the premier league with a shoestring budget side. I think sooner or later a bigger side is going to take a chance on him and my bet is that he will rise to the challenge.
 
alvinh said:
I think your argument is flawed. You look at Klopp's appointment at Dortmund, downplay his acheivements as success in a 'shallow pool' and say "how would he do inheriting a side of actual losers" when that's precisely the reason Dortmund appointed him. He didn't just appear out of a vacuum, he earned his rep performing minor miracles at Mainz. In other words, Dortmund a 'big club' down on its luck looked down the division to find someone doing a great job at a lower level and asked him to step up, the rest being history. He takes them to the title and the CL final and yes he brings a winning mentality despite humble origins.

Then you say that it's a no brainer to appoint Jose Mourinho a man who has NEVER taken on a club in a position comparable to ours, unless you count one season at Leiria in Portugal. He's consistently been at the first or second biggest spenders in each league, he's demanded massive investment in players, he seems to have a problem sustaining success into a third season and he's also got a nasty habit of leaving behind a car crash. Finally, he's just been expensively paid off from the biggest club in the world who are 30 miles or so up the road and he refused to even live there.

I don't get the blind spot so many have for him. Honestly, look at the club, look at the position with financial fair play, look at the demands of the new stadium. In what universe is Mourinho a rational appointment? The board should be looking for the next Klopp or Pep. Someone who has ambitions which could be met at Goodison. Someone who has a reputation for improving existing players and youth as well as getting in new ones via the chequebook, because the money is simply not available to sell everyone and start again.
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Erm... Not going tit for tat here for you accuse me of a flawed argument and then question the "blind spot" that I and others have. That blind spot is actually an appreciation of his legitimate knack of winning trophies everywhere he's been.

I'm not sure your point on Klopp. I've said he's massively improved Liverpool but suggested that club, as well as Dortmund - traditionally a huge, successful club in Germany - has a winning mentality already ingrained within it. I think we need someone to instil that mentality and from those available, Jose seems an obvious candidate.

You're already complaining of the mess he will leave despite evidence suggesting he can do well with horrifically average squads like Utd's.

Plus look at Porto.
 
mkrudden said:
Erm... Not going tit for tat here for you accuse me of a flawed argument and then question the "blind spot" that I and others have. That blind spot is actually an appreciation of his legitimate knack of winning trophies everywhere he's been.

I'm not sure your point on Klopp. I've said he's massively improved Liverpool but suggested that club, as well as Dortmund - traditionally a huge, successful club in Germany - has a winning mentality already ingrained within it. I think we need someone to instil that mentality and from those available, Jose seems an obvious candidate.

You're already complaining of the mess he will leave despite evidence suggesting he can do well with horrifically average squads like Utd's.

Plus look at Porto.
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Equally don't want to go tit for tat but will clarify a couple of points.

When I say 'blind spot' it's that people cite Mourinho's winning record without looking at the circumstances of the clubs concerned. So Porto, one of an established big 3 in Portugal, albeit the CL win was a tremendous achievement and he built a great team. Chelsea. prem and CL runners up under Ranieri and just added 120m of top talent when he took over, Inter, already dominant force in Italy and just needed a final push, Real who are Real and one title in 3 years is not great given their resources.

Re Klopp, do you think Mainz had a winning mentality when.he took them over, in the second division, multiple failed managerial appointments etc. That was my point with him, he proved himself at a club who didn't have such a mentality until Klopp imparted it.

That said I'll bow out of this now. I honestly think he'd be a terrible appointment and I'll leave it at that.
 
mkrudden said:
Quite a few musings re: Jose Mourinho (spelling?) within the Marco Silva thread which offer some interesting debates regarding what we require from our manager.

The honourable member (said in Bercow's voice) @mikeh72 wants a Klopp-like manager. Horse Head over the park had a very good CV albeit in a league where the challengers are a shallow pool. He also got Dortmund to a European cup final though which is a fantastic achievement.

He's gone to that shower and inherited a sub-par squad and made them better. Much better. The one thing that can't be argued though about that gang of [insert expletive here] is the club is used to winning. Doesn't matter if it's a league cup here or there, an FA Cup or a European Cup. Christ, they even won a trophy with Dalglish a few years ago didn't they?

The point i'm making is, how would he do inheriting a side of actual losers. Sounds harsh but who have we got who actually has a pedigree for winning? Even after spending a chunk of our majority shareholder's cash.

Gomes?
Digne?
Bernard?

It's a handful at best.

We don't have a mentality within the squad to be successful. We need someone, i'd argue, to bring that mentality.

Onto my good friend @Saint Domingo with his discussion of Jose. Won things literally everywhere he's been. Even won competitions with a Utd team that is as bad as I can remember in all the years watching footy. Isn't that what we need? He's even won major trophies with Porto!

To me, it's a no brainer. Yes it'll end horrendously when he calls out the lack of length (???) in Pickford's arms or calls us a small club at a press conference. But he'd surely give us the best chance of actually winning? Of getting used to winning? If our players can't be inspired by Jose, they should just pack up now.

Others on here may say we need someone to bring good football (Howe). Someone who gets us (Ferguson / Arteta). Pragmatism and steel (Moyes)?

The major point is perhaps, as a fanbase overall we don't know what we want. And that inconsistency is mirrored on the pitch, in the recruitment department...it's riddled throughout the club.

For what it's worth, I just want an identity. To me it should be one based on aggressiveness without the ball and fluidity on it. It's why I like Silva. But results like Newcastle away last season and Sheffield Utd this season make me question whether he can bring consistency to a club which still, a few years now after Moshiri came, feels like it's still in chaos.

Thoughts?
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Good thread.

Change of culture, change of culture, change of culture.

We need a manager who can change the culture of what it means to play in and for the blue jersey.

You could argue that culture is a broader issue/problem.
But I think Denise, Brands and co are making the right moves, the right strategic approach, the right ethos going forward.

And I used to think the crowd had something to do with it. That there is a prevalent anxiety amongst the support that is reciprocal with what is happening out on the pitch. One feeds into the other. Classic eg is the nerves set in once a lead is got and anxiety ramps up as soon as the opposition put in one decent effort on our goal, a bit of anxiety shown from a player or two and up it goes again.
Although its not as if the support and the club have not tried to lift, they have.

But its not all that. I think the Goodison support knows what is and what isn't, what a good team is, what's good football, whether that be consciously, subconsciously or intuitively. Reckon there's a good bit of the historical embedded in this type of support.

What would the type of support look like for a genuinely good Everton team?
Current support, arguably, may prevent the side from doing better, marginally, with the knowledge of what is
but the type of support for a proper good team I reckon would see them to do significantly better, bc of.

Getting to that team, and that type of support, will only come from cultural change within the team and that will only happen through a new manager(s). Most of the previous posts have already identified what that should look like.

I would add that the team needs a core of two of three real hard arse characters, dominant personalities, that the manger can work with. There's a weaknesses at the core of the group. The problem is these types of players are not as easy to find these days.
This is in no way a defence of Silva, he's not the manager to do it.

I think for the this club and the type of players we've got, the manager not only has to be a successful manager, he has to have been a successful player who demands respect for what he has done himself out on the pitch; and a particular type of player at that.

I've already argued before that Simone would be ideal for this club. Would we be lucky enough to get him. Maybe, maybe not. But I'd certainly be going for someone in the same mould.

It may be that we don't get this type of manager next. But if not then I'd at least go for someone whose going to change the culture before getting in the tactically more astute fella. I think we missed the boat after Moyes for more reasons than one. I think we're going round full circle. Lets hope we don't do it again. Maybe its a case of finding the new Moyes before finding the Simone.

But whatever the case all I want to see is a proper manager/team at Goodison once more, before its time to leave.
 
Anyone who's the opposite of the last 4 gobshytes we've had, hard to beleave we can't get some one decent, half expecting Neil warnock next
 
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