We can lead the way in fighting racism

[ilikecheese]

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-tsuchiyama-oriental-insult-20160601-snap-story.html

Meh, the world it certainly is a changing.

I dunno what that guy is on about, one of my aunts is Japanese and it was offensive to her back in the 70's.

 

[Goat]

I dunno what that guy is on about, one of my aunts is Japanese and it was offensive to her back in the 70's.

Dunno fam.

I always think its funny that me, a white dude, should pass judgement on what is and isnt offensive to others!

 

[f.t.r.s]

Nah. But "Oriental" is defo offensive and was used earlier in this thread.

Why is it offensive? in my mind it seperates east asia from the middle east, no offence intended. Surely it's more offensive to lump them in under one generic term of asian, given how both cultures are very different?

Or is this a similar case as to how the meaning of the n word differs depending who says it?

 

[COYBL25]

Bang on about super Kev there mate, he became a massive hero figure for keeping us up, and then secured his status by being a top, top lad ever since!

To me, he`s one of our most important signings of all time, as not only did he single handily save us from relegation that year, but he moved us forward decades with regards to the issue of Everton and race.

 

[shagpuss]

Hello everyone. First post. Fascinating thread, this. My partner is Japanese and she certainly doesn't find the word Oriental offensive.

 

[roydo]

Why is it offensive? in my mind it seperates east asia from the middle east, no offence intended. Surely it's more offensive to lump them in under one generic term of asian, given how both cultures are very different?

Or is this a similar case as to how the meaning of the n word differs depending who says it?

I dont know for sure, but I would hazard a guess that the area the West refer to as The Orient, isnt a term of reference that is used, nor is welcomed, by the folk who actually live there.

That area of the world existed and thrived for centuries before "We" "Discovered" it.

 

[f.t.r.s]

Substantial numbers of (I assume) Koreans sit by us in the MS2, (I assume, probably incorrectly, that they are associated with Chang somehow?) anyway, there is also an Indian guy who brings his two young lads, and of course we have a few Asian stewards (one is even a female lady type person, so she scores highly on the diversity chart). so I guess we are not exclusively white, but I do often look around the seats by me and note how old our fan base is (and of course largely white). Mind you, when I was growing up, none of the black or Indian lads at our school were interested in footy, they were all big Cricket fans! So they would never have thought to bring their kids to a match I suppose?

Chang is thai
While i'm all for diversity I don't see see a lack of racial diversity as a sign of racism.
In a country where the majority of the population is white, is it really a bad thing for the majority of a small fan base (40kish each match day) to be white?
I'd say it's proportionally accurate. Afterall it's in the name, 'Minority'
I'm sure if you go to an area where there are proportionally highher numbers of minorities then the number in attendance would be higher?
It only becomes an issue in my mind if people are actively put of attending due to the actions on the fanbase

 

[roydo]

Hello everyone. First post. Fascinating thread, this. My partner is Japanese and she certainly doesn't find the word Oriental offensive.

Or maybe not ffs! I did say it was a guess.

 

[f.t.r.s]

I dont know for sure, but I would hazard a guess that the area the West refer to as The Orient, isnt a term of reference that is used, nor is welcomed, by the folk who actually live there.

That area of the world existed and thrived for centuries before "We" "Discovered" it.

Fair enough, apologies if any offence was caused, most certainly wasn't meant.
Given the current pc gone mad environment, it's hard to get a point across without someone taking it the wrong way these days, joys of the world ad the interwebs i guess

 

[roydo]

Fair enough, apologies if any offence was caused, most certainly wasn't meant.
Given the current pc gone mad environment, it's hard to get a point across without someone taking it the wrong way these days, joys of the world ad the interwebs i guess

Its not easy is it? Like I havnt a racist bone in my body, but I am pretty certain I have used language, or terms, in total innocence, that some would deem to be so. Its quite a common occurrence behind the scenes that when a post is reported as "Racist", unless its pretty obvious, we have to discuss to decide or research, if it actually is!

 

[shagpuss]

I've been going on and off to Goodison since 1994. The only overt racism I've heard was when some old fella in the Top Balcony called Earl Barrett a lazy n*****. No-one, including me, pulled him up about it. I was only 16 at the time and he was about 70. I'd like to think I'd tell him to shut it now.
Another time was a home game against Fulham in 2011. We had a minutes silence for the victims of the Tohoku Tsunami. I was sitting in the Lower Bullens with my Japanse partner. One middle-aged fella sitting right behind us said to his mate that his Dad wouldn't have stayed silent. Something about evil J*** in WW2. This was more xenophobia than racism though. Happy to say Goodison was immaculately silent for 30,000 innocent victims.

 

[bag a yoko]

I know it's off thread but I'm a season ticket holder at San Siro and they've been getting a lot of East Asian fans since Nagatomo was playing. Now it has a big Chinese presence they're getting a lot of Chinese too. It always makes me laugh when they end up with tickets in the ultras section where it's just standing, singing and seat numbers have no meaning. Every game about 5 minutes before kick off a Chinese family wading into the flares and banners waving their tickets and totally bemused while the ultras typically and patiently explain to them in English that they'll have to sit on the 6 foot concrete wall at the back with all the other people who wrongly bought tickets in the Curva Nord.

 

[paultheblue]

Born, brought up, and still in Liverpool, I'm the son of Indian parents who moved over in the 70s to the city. At the time, our parents' generation experienced some difficult times with prejudice, patronising behaviour but mainly amazing warmth, kindness and openness - some of the things that make the city great. While it was kind of 'easy' and 'obvious' to support Liverpool in the 70s and early 80s (don't ask me why) I somehow got caught up in the wrong group of friends and went blue! best decision of my life - well, character building anyway as I was too young to really enjoy the success of the 80s and at the time when I was enjoying football the most we had Walter Smith, Howard Kendall III, Mike Walker etc...

It's difficult to explain and I hope you understand this - going to football matches at that time was a scary experience, and ethnic minority families were afraid of having their children go to games, where there was a reputation for violence, racism and of course 'Everton are white' stereotypes. I still supported everton but was not allowed to go to matches. If you have ever been in this situation, or even if you can understand this - immigrant families worked harder to stay safe and protect jobs, build networks of friends and families and tried to create a community around them. Going to Goodison was out of the question because of stories, reputation, fear, especially when Liverpool had a reputation for crime and violence overseas. (They still moved here, but tried to stay in a comfort zone)

Even today, as an adult and dad myself, I find it challenging to go to matches, as I don't see many coloured faces around the ground. I know our people are not racist, but it's still intimidating. I know that if I'm wearing an Everton shirt, nobody cares about the colour of my skin But still, when I talk to friends and family who are not blues, and not from Liverpool, I get the feeling people still have a prejudice and stereotype view of Everton that we are a local, insular, 'white' club and don't have any space for international fans, ethnic minorities and immigrants.

As a friendly club, with a fantastic charity, great reputation as a 'people's club' and 'family club' we have to do something about this. How can we make the club more approachable, more accessible, totally disassociated with violence, aggression, intimidation, racism while still being a great powerful stadium and home ground that is intimidating for opposition teams? We can find a balance where we are totally behind our club, have amazing 'walls of blue', or great songs and chants that ring around the stadium, amazing noise like in the derby, but don't abuse and intimidate opposition players and fans. I know there have been no racist incidents, but hopefully you get where I'm coming from.

Whether we like it or not, the way of the EPL now is to be international, have a powerful brand and an attractive offer for new fans. We need to show ourselves to be different from the top clubs and not just buy our way to success, but build the club up from within, with strong roots. There's definitely a lot to be said in being the plucky outsider, the club punching above its weight, the honest, authentic club - all cliches that can help us to attract more fans, sponsorship, attention in the media and make us grow.

I hope that we can also start initiatives and embrace the anti racism movement, with some symbolic gestures, with some programmes for people of all backgrounds, and mostly, for being honest that we are treating everyone the same, whatever their skin colour, language accent, etc. I don't know what the answer is, but I'm sure there are other people like me who would love to go to matches, but used to stay away.

I'm happy to argue this out, and be told I'm wrong, but because we are so good at so many things, we need to be good at one of the major problems of our time.

Is it just me that finds this post a little bit insulting ?
I have watched Everton since the sixties and have seen many blues of different race going the match and to me and the vast majority of other blues the only colour that matters is the colour of your shirt not the colour of your skin.

 

[barneygumble]

Go to an away game, there's an abundance of stupid kids making racist shouts.

Whilst you've got a culture like that, you'll never eradicate racism in football. By whole though, Everton as a football club do loads to support inclusion for all.

 

[Catfish Blues]

If your an Evertonian makes no difference to me what colour or creed you are

That's true like, but it shouldn't matter if you're an Evertonian or not.

If you take what you said literally, it implies that if someone wasn't an Evertonian, but they were black, brown, Muslim, Sikh or whatever, then it might matter.

Apologies for picking on your post, but a few people have said similar things, so it's worth thinking about. We all have prejudices, but the first step in fixing them is to ackowledge that we have them.