2020/21 Thierry Small

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roydo

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It's weird that the contract that Small will sign in a few days will more or less set him up for life, even if he only goes on to have a moderate career.

Doubt it. 16 years old equals good money, but if he doesnt develop by 19, thats the Life Changing money deal in the bin.

You need a LOT of money at early 30's to be set up for life. (Or get signed by Everton a few years ago).
 

blueblue

Player Valuation: £70m
Doubt it. 16 years old equals good money, but if he doesnt develop by 19, thats the Life Changing money deal in the bin.

You need a LOT of money at early 30's to be set up for life. (Or get signed by Everton a few years ago).
Maybe, but if Baningme was on 8k per week and not really rated at all then you would think Small could surely get 15k per week minimum.
Over three years that would come to over 2m. That would be a lifetimes work for some.
 

Jamo Martinez

Player Valuation: £70m
Maybe, but if Baningme was on 8k per week and not really rated at all then you would think Small could surely get 15k per week minimum.
Over three years that would come to over 2m. That would be a lifetimes work for some.
On my wage, I'd have to work 80 years to make 2m
 

Terrarian

Player Valuation: £40m
Path to first team or 'mens football' is not always at the club you are currently at.

Look at Chelsea and Mason Mount & Reece James.
A careful structured plan, using the contacts and clout in football to ensure these lads progressed for 2-3 years before coming back and being first team ready.

People are going on like the lad is saying 'i want to play for arsenal at left back next week'

Hes not, he just dosent see the best opportunity of progression for his career
Using Chelsea as an example is a bit rich, the amount of top youngsters who they let go because they'd rather buy ready made, I doubt James and Mount would have had a sniff if not for Lampard and the ban, although that's only an opinion, but they proved they were good enough but make no mistake Chelsea do not normally use youth.
 

catcherintherye

Player Valuation: £70m
Path to first team or 'mens football' is not always at the club you are currently at.

Look at Chelsea and Mason Mount & Reece James.
A careful structured plan, using the contacts and clout in football to ensure these lads progressed for 2-3 years before coming back and being first team ready.

People are going on like the lad is saying 'i want to play for arsenal at left back next week'

Hes not, he just dosent see the best opportunity of progression for his career

But 90% of the young players at Chelsea, just get stuck on the loan conveyor belt, and to be honest have their careers ruined as a result. Mount and James got lucky, that they had a transfer ban and Lampard took over. Had those things not happened, I'm not convinced they wouldn't be on the same loan treadmill as lads like Loftus Cheek or whatever, at a Norwich or a Palace.

I can understand a young player wanting away, but if I was making that decision I really wouldn't be fobbed off with loan moves and stuck out of sight out of mind by the club and essentially farmed out for a profit. You can sort of see that now, with a lot of lads leaving Chelsea to pursue permanent contracts at clubs they will get 1st team action.
 

catcherintherye

Player Valuation: £70m
Doubt it. 16 years old equals good money, but if he doesnt develop by 19, thats the Life Changing money deal in the bin.

You need a LOT of money at early 30's to be set up for life. (Or get signed by Everton a few years ago).

I think you are right mate, but also a big sign on fee and wage hike at 17 is very tempting. This is very much the paradox of English football now. A lot of that England squad have either come from lower league football, or have left top clubs to go and get 1st team experience abroad. They have probably turned their back on massive wages and sign on fees at top clubs to take the longer view- which is namely if I achieve my potential the sky will be the limit in 3-4 years. I have no doubt that Sancho signed on lesser terms initially at Dortmund than what City offered, but in the medium term he has made a lot more money from having that exposure.

It's hard though. Apparently Small is being offered a 7 figure sign on fee and wages that are into the 7 figures p/a too. I mean, if you are smart you should be set up for life. You should be able to buy a property, invest a load prudently etc. Either way though, it's very difficult for younger players to walk away from at that moment in time.

It's sad really, as you would think staying here would probably be his best option.
 

Terrarian

Player Valuation: £40m
I think you are right mate, but also a big sign on fee and wage hike at 17 is very tempting. This is very much the paradox of English football now. A lot of that England squad have either come from lower league football, or have left top clubs to go and get 1st team experience abroad. They have probably turned their back on massive wages and sign on fees at top clubs to take the longer view- which is namely if I achieve my potential the sky will be the limit in 3-4 years. I have no doubt that Sancho signed on lesser terms initially at Dortmund than what City offered, but in the medium term he has made a lot more money from having that exposure.

It's hard though. Apparently Small is being offered a 7 figure sign on fee and wages that are into the 7 figures p/a too. I mean, if you are smart you should be set up for life. You should be able to buy a property, invest a load prudently etc. Either way though, it's very difficult for younger players to walk away from at that moment in time.

It's sad really, as you would think staying here would probably be his best option.
It's just crazy giving him so much money before he's achieved anything, it really has to stop. Football has changed so much, they don't have to clean the senior players boots etc these days, all that was part of the learning about being a pro, now they just want to be spoon fed success without working for it.

I'm not advocating going back to those days as we all know there was also a lot of bad practises and abuse and racism etc but some things like keeping the youngsters humble and having to earn a place in the side should always be in place, although it was very difficult to get first team football by the age of 21 in those days unless a you really were special. That to a degree should always be the case though, you need to be better than what is in front of you, it's that simple really.
 

catcherintherye

Player Valuation: £70m
It's just crazy giving him so much money before he's achieved anything, it really has to stop. Football has changed so much, they don't have to clean the senior players boots etc these days, all that was part of the learning about being a pro, now they just want to be spoon fed success without working for it.

I'm not advocating going back to those days as we all know there was also a lot of bad practises and abuse and racism etc but some things like keeping the youngsters humble and having to earn a place in the side should always be in place, although it was very difficult to get first team football by the age of 21 in those days unless a you really were special. That to a degree should always be the case though, you need to be better than what is in front of you, it's that simple really.

I would imagine Everton are wary of becoming embroiled in an arms race. You also have to factor in, if you give it to 1 young player, lots of others start demanding it. This is very much where City, Liverpool and Chelsea are at, who all carry very expensive youth academies. I estimated earlier on this thread I would conservatively guess they spend 50m a year on salaries, fees, agents payments and sign on bonuses for young players a season. That's a conservative estimate too. As a club we may well have decided we won't/can't compete with that.

I would be happy too as well. While Liverpool's talent line is actually quite mediocre for what they pay City/Chelsea's is enviable and structurally I would happily make that commitment if it meant the output they get. However I doubt the board will want to.

I digress slightly, but Small will have been offered a deal here, and likely a much better one elsewhere. I don't see much evidence he is more likely to come through at a Chelsea, or an Arsenal or wherever, but he may well get paid a lot more money. I actually think he'd have had 1st team minutes this summer if he would have stayed, which is more than I can say for Arsenal or Chelsea.
 

Terrarian

Player Valuation: £40m
I would imagine Everton are wary of becoming embroiled in an arms race. You also have to factor in, if you give it to 1 young player, lots of others start demanding it. This is very much where City, Liverpool and Chelsea are at, who all carry very expensive youth academies. I estimated earlier on this thread I would conservatively guess they spend 50m a year on salaries, fees, agents payments and sign on bonuses for young players a season. That's a conservative estimate too. As a club we may well have decided we won't/can't compete with that.

I would be happy too as well. While Liverpool's talent line is actually quite mediocre for what they pay City/Chelsea's is enviable and structurally I would happily make that commitment if it meant the output they get. However I doubt the board will want to.

I digress slightly, but Small will have been offered a deal here, and likely a much better one elsewhere. I don't see much evidence he is more likely to come through at a Chelsea, or an Arsenal or wherever, but he may well get paid a lot more money. I actually think he'd have had 1st team minutes this summer if he would have stayed, which is more than I can say for Arsenal or Chelsea.
A club like ours should be trying it's best too emulate these academies, although Chelsea don't play a lot of theirs, as you say they still produce them, for us that could be huge and it is baffling why we don't try and emulate it. It would be better spending that money in the academy IF it was producing players than wasting some of the amounts we have on the Iwobis of this world.
 

mightymoyes

Player Valuation: £70m
A club like ours should be trying it's best too emulate these academies, although Chelsea don't play a lot of theirs, as you say they still produce them, for us that could be huge and it is baffling why we don't try and emulate it. It would be better spending that money in the academy IF it was producing players than wasting some of the amounts we have on the Iwobis of this world.

im not sure why you'd want to emulate chelsea, i think their young players are starting to realise they'd be better off not signing long contracts with them and are looking for opportunities elsewhere. we should be trying to snap the best ones up that don't want to stay with them by making ourselves attractive to young players by showing we will give them chances (something we've been terrible at recently).
 

Terrarian

Player Valuation: £40m
im not sure why you'd want to emulate chelsea, i think their young players are starting to realise they'd be better off not signing long contracts with them and are looking for opportunities elsewhere. we should be trying to snap the best ones up that don't want to stay with them by making ourselves attractive to young players by showing we will give them chances (something we've been terrible at recently).
Did you not understand my post mate. I'll explain again, not sure I can put it simpler though.

They produce a lot of good players through their academy. They let a lot go because they like ready made but for us if we could produce the same amount of quality that they do, it would be beneficial.

Why would you not want to emulate an academy that produces quite a lot of Premier league standard players, just because they choose not too use them is neither here nor there.

We always always moan we don't produce any academy players on any sort of consistent basis.
 

mightymoyes

Player Valuation: £70m
Did you not understand my post mate. I'll explain again, not sure I can put it simpler though.

They produce a lot of good players through their academy. They let a lot go because they like ready made but for us if we could produce the same amount of quality that they do, it would be beneficial.

Why would you not want to emulate an academy that produces quite a lot of Premier league standard players, just because they choose not too use them is neither here nor there.

We always always moan we don't produce any academy players on any sort of consistent basis.

i know what you're saying but the costs are prohibitive, cheaper just to let them develop them and take them later when they leave for nothing at 19/20
 
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