The Privileged Elite

[Seanjd]

How many of us could honestly say that we know for sure what it is that people in the finance industry have to do to get a bonus?

They make the companies they work for obscene amounts of money and in return receive obscene amounts of money, usually with no regard to their customers' wellbeing.

 

[anjelikaferrett]

So, it comes back, again, to my view on education in this country.

To me, it is simple. Instead of accepting that some school, mainly private, have a Blue (sic) Ribbon cache, make the state schools better.

We did it in sport. Dont dis the "elite", emulate them.

Vote Roydo.

Nice idea you have my vote, but it's never going to happen. No matter how good state schools are or become, they will never be able to compete with Harrow, Eton and the like because they haven't got the "elite" also known as the Establishment giving them their patronage. You would have to create a society where everybody gets the same opportunity regardless of their background, accent, gender, colour and solely based on ability. which the Establishment don't want.

You only have to look at the banking crisis of a few years ago. Not one bank has been brought to account for their actions, We found money to bail them out but get no return from the money the taxpayers put in. Instead the blame was directed at the poorest people in society- the homeless, the disabled, the unemployed who, via the Establishment controlled media, have been turned into lazy feckless scroungers. And yes, I know there's a whole argument to be had about people fiddling benefits but compared to the amount lost by tax avoidance it's peanuts.

I could go on- Hillsborough cover up, The Goddard enquiry, Jimmy Saville who used his connections to the elite to pursue his heinous crimes, Cyril Smith, who was part of the Establishment, Rupert Murdoch telling John Major, a British Prime Minister "I will bring you down" And if you get bored one day, google Ted Heath.

Sorry, rant over. The system is rotten.

 

[Seanjd]

Yes, but you're assuming that's because they are wealthy, when I'm not sure you can accurately make that assumption.

Are you saying its a coincidence that the wealth you are surrounded by growing up and your future life successes correlate?

 

[magicjuan]

It's kinda evident in this debate as well to an extent. It's what the Greek poet Archilochus called the Fox and the Hedgehog. Basically suggests that the Hedgehog knows one thing, and tries to shoehorn everything into that one lens. The Fox is more diverse and accepts that things are complex.

So in this instance, the hedgehog thinks that social mobility is low because the system is rigged (innit), whereas the fox thinks social mobility is low because of a multitude of factors that make easy catchlines difficult. In essence, if you can boil an issue down to a newspaper headline then you're almost certainly looking at it too narrowly.

For instance, if you look at success in life, you have to consider things like the work ethic of the individual, the connections they may have, their personality and social skills, their gender, the companies they work for, even things such as whether they start their careers in a recession and no doubt many other things. Just boiling success or failure down to the wealth of your family is far too simplistic imo.

You do some people an injustice by generalising a generalisation. A lot of those you mention are taken into account and form part of the equation.

There are foxes and hedgehogs on both sides of the fence, both can see, not just one side, that would be patronising and fuel the opinion.

Perhaps it's the sneering, arrogant flaunting of wealth and achievement, the brazen display of being cushioned from the worries of poverty, of making ends meet, not just in the vacuous and vulgar displays but in the snidey avoidance of responsibility and Marie Antoinette approach.

Each and every trait you mention can be applied to myriad others who don't succeed, perhaps the wind blew the wrong way on one particular day, or perhaps their face didn't fit, they couldn't afford a suit, credit lines weren't available, despite their efforts, if only Daddy knew someone who knew someone who went to the same school as someone else.

You cannot say those factors only apply in judging success, they have to apply to failure, and the failure rate of those not from the 'upper echelons' is greater through lack of opportunity because of their 'standing'.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Are you saying its a coincidence that the wealth you are surrounded by growing up and your future life successes correlate?

I think you're looking at things too simplistically. I suspect there has been no research into this, but do you think the educational performance of children of lottery winners changes much before and after a win?

 

[magicjuan]

How many of us could honestly say that we know for sure what it is that people in the finance industry have to do to get a bonus? I know I wouldn't have a clue, and I'd feel very uneasy about making judgements based upon flimsy caricatures in the press. I mean, how many of us would even know what a derivatives trader does, much less what they do to earn a bonus?

It's been reported many times that a company make a loss yet bonuses have been paid. There was a recent case a few years ago that brought about a shareholder protest, so I could safely commit to saying failure to be succesful (whatever yardstick that is measured in) would qualify for a huge bonus, indeed not just that but one paid wholly or partly in shares to avoid taxation and would produce greater bonus should said employee decide to erm, perform successfully.

 

[paulbefc]

Are you talking cashiers or investment bankers?

bit of a difference...

Yes mate, I'm talking investment bankers.

 

[Seanjd]

I think you're looking at things too simplistically. I suspect there has been no research into this, but do you think the educational performance of children of lottery winners changes much before and after a win?

No, but I have never suggested that money particularly affects educational performance. Although I think it can. I mean that it allows you access to things which I a child growing up in poverty cannot afford. Private school, for example, which will enable it's pupils better chances through connections and resources.

 

[magicjuan]

I think you're looking at things too simplistically. I suspect there has been no research into this, but do you think the educational performance of children of lottery winners changes much before and after a win?

That's very unfortunate language and imagery being used there

 

[dandydan]

Two equally fit birds gagging for it, ones in a Versace little black dress, killer heels and flawless make up. The others wearing a tracksuit with a Croydon facelift.
Decisions decisions.

 

[magicjuan]

Yes mate, I'm talking investment bankers.

Then acceptance into the fold, acquiescence into the system and a blind eye to practices and consequences.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

It's been reported many times that a company make a loss yet bonuses have been paid. There was a recent case a few years ago that brought about a shareholder protest, so I could safely commit to saying failure to be succesful (whatever yardstick that is measured in) would qualify for a huge bonus, indeed not just that but one paid wholly or partly in shares to avoid taxation and would produce greater bonus should said employee decide to erm, perform successfully.

Again though, that's relying on what is reported in the press. I wouldn't say it's an accurate picture of what goes on.

That's very unfortunate language and imagery being used there

It was the best example I could think of of a change in wealth without there being any real skill involved in its achievement. Open to other examples if you have any

 

[magicjuan]

Again though, that's relying on what is reported in the press. I wouldn't say it's an accurate picture of what goes on.

but it's reported, usually leaked and then we end up nowhere when we become what to believe and what to discard from the press



It was the best example I could think of of a change in wealth without there being any real skill involved in its achievement. Open to other examples if you have any

Pools?

 

[paulbefc]

It's been reported many times that a company make a loss yet bonuses have been paid. There was a recent case a few years ago that brought about a shareholder protest, so I could safely commit to saying failure to be succesful (whatever yardstick that is measured in) would qualify for a huge bonus, indeed not just that but one paid wholly or partly in shares to avoid taxation and would produce greater bonus should said employee decide to erm, perform successfully.

Bonuses are there largely because they are required to attract talented employees who make the money used to pay the bonuses, surely? A bank could decide to slash its bonuses one year after under-performance, but they would soon be hiring from a much weaker pool of talent and seeing their best employees leave for their competitors. I'm not saying they're reasonable in size, but you asked earlier why pay these bonuses if not purely for greed.

Then acceptance into the fold, acquiescence into the system and a blind eye to practices and consequences.

What exactly are all the employees turning a blind eye to, in your view?

 

[Rob17896]

https://www.theguardian.com/society...issing-out-on-banking-jobs-for-lacking-polish

The elite wielding their power? or common sense approach to business?

all seems a bit sinister to me...

We all gravite to who we are at ease with. If we interview for a job we have done ourselves then we recruit 'someone like me.'
It is natural. This is why companies need to have specific policies on diversity, they overrule our natural tendencies.