The Power Shift On Merseyside

[carlos_the_jackal]

think the original post is totally wrong, there has been no power shift, on the contrary, the gap has got wider in real terms.

judge it by the commerical revenue, judge it buy the transfer activity, judge it by the on the pitch and off the pitch ambition, judge it by the fan numbers, but dont use some selective stats.

im sorry, but where miles behind liverpool as a club, and the constant obsession with comparing ourselves to them is embarassing.

Put it this way, if City win a few more leagues and the odd cup while also seriously challenging for the European Cup while United win **** all, do you reckon many City fans will give a flying **** that they don't have the commercial clout or global fanbase of United?

The key factor is success on the park and you're right, they've still got their sights higher than us and have won more trophies over recent years than we had. That said, 10+ years ago we weren't looking any higher than mid-table and going through the season without the threat of relegation. Now, we're realistically hoping for European qualification and decent cup runs. On the flipside, Liverpool have gone from looking to challenge for the title to not even being guaranteed to qualify for Europe. The gap has closed somewhat but to talk of a power shift is jumping the gun before it's even been loaded.

 

[SaffaBlue]

Just purely going off the math of it all...

If you are counting the current campaign in your two year then that's skewing your results.

I think if you annualized the points instead of the cumulative that you used then there will be a negative impact on your hypothesis, yet should greater reflect the actual result.

If you were to look at premier league finishes, add them all up and divide by years, the story would also read differently.

Also, they have had Champions League etc, so where does that factor into your calculations?

Sorry to burst your bubble but I just think you are getting carried away a bit

 

[Brennan]

You're seriously arguing that commerical revenue is a better way to judge a club then where they actually finish in the league.

All a bit Dalglish for me, like.

In terms of power ? It certainly is. We finish a place ahead of Liverpool, so what ? They won a trophy and are competing in Europe, have a huge worldwide fanbase and have owners who are willing to invest money (or were before Dalglish p*ssed it up the wall).

 

[Brennan]

Put it this way, if City win a few more leagues and the odd cup while also seriously challenging for the European Cup while United win **** all, do you reckon many City fans will give a flying **** that they don't have the commercial clout or global fanbase of United?

The key factor is success on the park and you're right, they've still got their sights higher than us and have won more trophies over recent years than we had. That said, 10+ years ago we weren't looking any higher than mid-table and going through the season without the threat of relegation. Now, we're realistically hoping for European qualification and decent cup runs. On the flipside, Liverpool have gone from looking to challenge for the title to not even being guaranteed to qualify for Europe. The gap has closed somewhat but to talk of a power shift is jumping the gun before it's even been loaded.

City have a billionaire owner who is committed to making the club a worldwide football juggernaut. Not really comparable to plucky old Everton finishing a few points ahead of Liverpool one year.

 

[Allezfan]

Just purely going off the math of it all...

If you are counting the current campaign in your two year then that's skewing your results.

I think if you annualized the points instead of the cumulative that you used then there will be a negative impact on your hypothesis, yet should greater reflect the actual result.

If you were to look at premier league finishes, add them all up and divide by years, the story would also read differently.

Also, they have had Champions League etc, so where does that factor into your calculations?

Sorry to burst your bubble but I just think you are getting carried away a bit

The gap is closer than it's been for a while though. We never finished above them in the league once during the 90s. But we've done it twice in the last 7 years and finished within one place of them two other times in that period.

Our last three finishes are 7th, 7th and 8th and there's are 6th, 7th and 8th. That's not a huge gap.

 

[Allezfan]

In terms of power ? It certainly is. We finish a place ahead of Liverpool, so what ? They won a trophy and are competing in Europe, have a huge worldwide fanbase and have owners who are willing to invest money (or were before Dalglish p*ssed it up the wall).

Oh don't get me wrong I'd swap their season for ours in a heartbeat. But the idea that they're pulling away from us is bollocks. They've won 23 points in the last 26 games. It wasn't that long ago they were finishing 2nd and playing champions league finals and we were finishing 17th.

It's ridiculous to argue that the gap was got wider.

 

[somuchfun]

We have a better team now and their best player is a loan player they paid pooploads for in a proper bottom ten style.

 

[Kurt.]

I agree with Brennan..................not that i'm really arsed about the RS but I just can't be bothered arguing with him for the next 3 days.

 

[Slavan]

It's ridiculous to argue that the gap was got wider.

it has got wider.
they are planning a new stadium or major redevelopment, our chairman is scarmongering to the fans telling them goodson may lose its safety certificate.
they can splash (and waste) tens of millions of pounds on players, we have spent less than we got in for jack rodwell.
they have genuine world class players, we dont.
they want to win trophys and compete for the title, our chairman and alot of our fans think finishing above them is like winning the league.
they have a brilliant sponsorship deal, merchandise deal, tv show, etc - we have kitbag giving us a small set fee and thailands version of skol throwing us some loose change (in premier league terms).

the gap is growing, because we got plucky and finished 7th is an embarassment compared to the club and team we where in the 80's.
7TH!
its not worth talking about or remembering, no one will.

 

[carlos_the_jackal]

City have a billionaire owner who is committed to making the club a worldwide football juggernaut. Not really comparable to plucky old Everton finishing a few points ahead of Liverpool one year.

You're missing my point. That point being that football fans are or ought to be more arsed about actual footballing success than who has the biggest global support or sells the most merchandise. Everton could qualify for Europe every season for the next 10 and win a few cups along the way with Liverpool finishing 15th every season and they'd still be a bigger commercial success globally. Would there still not have been a power shift in that scenario??

 

[Brennan]

I agree with Brennan..................not that i'm really arsed about the RS but I just can't be bothered arguing with him for the next 3 days.

I was going to defend you in the thread where you were getting threatened with the ban hammer and now this ffs. WHY

 

[Allezfan]

it has got wider.
they are planning a new stadium or major redevelopment, our chairman is scarmongering to the fans telling them goodson may lose its safety certificate.
they can splash (and waste) tens of millions of pounds on players, we have spent less than we got in for jack rodwell.
they have genuine world class players, we dont.
they want to win trophys and compete for the title, our chairman and alot of our fans think finishing above them is like winning the league.
they have a brilliant sponsorship deal, merchandise deal, tv show, etc - we have kitbag giving us a small set fee and thailands version of skol throwing us some loose change (in premier league terms).

the gap is growing, because we got plucky and finished 7th is an embarassment compared to the club and team we where in the 80's.
7TH!
its not worth talking about or remembering, no one will.

I want to have a threesome with the cast of Supernatural, mate, it ain't going to happen.

You judge a team by how they do on the pitch and their team is not a title challenging team. Like I said their league record over the last year is relegation form. They can spend what money they like and talk up their chances as much as they like, until they start winning games I won't care.

We've playing vastly better than them at the moment.

 

[Brennan]

You're missing my point. That point being that football fans are or ought to be more arsed about actual footballing success than who has the biggest global support or sells the most merchandise. Everton could qualify for Europe every season for the next 10 and win a few cups along the way with Liverpool finishing 15th every season and they'd still be a bigger commercial success globally. Would there still not have been a power shift in that scenario??

Yes, but that will never happen, precisely because of Liverpool's financial strength compared to us. The only way there would be a real 'power shift' is if we were to finish in the top four and then couple that financial reward with board investment to cement our position above them. This current state of affairs isn't a power shift, it's a result of Liverpool employing a manager who wasted £100m+ on average players.

 

[Slavan]

You're missing my point. That point being that football fans are or ought to be more arsed about actual footballing success than who has the biggest global support or sells the most merchandise. Everton could qualify for Europe every season for the next 10 and win a few cups along the way with Liverpool finishing 15th every season and they'd still be a bigger commercial success globally. Would there still not have been a power shift in that scenario??

no cause the game is all about money, and wthout money, we wont do no more than best of the rest.
and before we have the self-righteous 'im proud our charman lies to us, spends nothing and we dont but the league' well football has always been about signing the best players, paying the better wages and winning trophys.
and thats why money is essential within any powershift.

 

[ijjysmith]

I've read the title to this thread about 7 times now and on 6 of those it's said 'The Power Sh*t on Merseryside'

Which is funny because I'm having a power sh*t right now as I write this.