The fans should be sacked?

[Noisy noise annoys]

At present, the fans sitting on their hands would be the very worst thing they could do - which is essentially what the opening post of this thread was advocating.

I’m not one for personal abuse of players - but I’m not surprised it’s happening. There are so many basic mistakes costing us dear.

The match is the only time fans are able to express themselves in a meaningful and collective way that the club is forced to take notice of.

If the players get rattled by the toxicity the club has helped breed, then so be it. They aren’t blameless.

Protest triggers change - and change is what we need.

Yep, but protest the club NOT the players. Where is the logic in making your players worse? Because that is what happens when they get abuse, terrified to touch the ball or play a risky pass, just keep it safe, pass backwards and sideways and keep your head down

 

[PhilM]

When we analyse things that are part of the problem I'd say our fans singing a few songs about that lot is pretty low down on the list.

If you are going to blame the fans for anything, it's for tolerating us going from being one of the biggest clubs in England to mid table nonentities.

If we win on Monday, all will be forgiven/forgotten and there will be plenty inside the stadium who scoff at the disgruntled fans who have spent the last week complaining.

I'm 31 now so being also rans is all I've ever known. I now think we are much more likely to be relegated than lift a trophy in my lifetime but aside from the odd few on social media people are very accepting of it. I don't go to as many games as I used to so it doesn't bother me as much - I just feel sorry for the people who continue to pay a fortune and are seemingly content with being taken for a complete ride.

I don't disagree, and perhaps I've not got my point across properly.

The mentality of the wider fan base is a by-product of years and years of failure and mismanagement, but to some extent it's part of the current problem too.

There isn't that relationship between the players and fans like there once was and we heralded, and again it would be fair for people to say it's the club's fault.

Nevertheless, trying to be objective I do wonder what the players (past and present) think of it. Little things like many players never getting a song these days.

It's not blaming the fans but trying to consider the wider picture. The fans need to protest at the management of the club, but equally support the players*.

Because, I can't help think that if we continue on our current path then the outcome will be worse. If that makes sense?

*to a fair extent.

 

[Kev50]

The connection between their players and fans is the complete opposite to ours. They all seem focused on the task of doing whatever it takes to get 3 points. Ours just look like complete mercenaries focused on rinsing the club for every penny they can get.

can you remember when Anfield last turned on their team? Cos although they've been better than us, they've also had to watch 25 years of permanent united success. They never do. That alone has got to be worth 15 points. a season. How we have got into the position where our own players are terrified of the fan reaction is one of the many reasons we are in trouble. You seem to be presuming we have somehow hit the bottom, and have nothing to lose from making this point. We have everything to lose. Our status as a top flight club, the new ground, the lot.

 

[allen]

Yep, but protest the club NOT the players. Where is the logic in making your players worse? Because that is what happens when they get abuse, terrified to touch the ball or play a risky pass, just keep it safe, pass backwards and sideways and keep your head down

I’ve never abused a player at a match. But I can completely understand the raw emotion that leads to it.

Especially when it’s symptomatic of the wrong attitude - like a lazy miss-control of a simple ball, or a decision to turn and play an easy ball back to the keeper instead of the right ball forward.

On balance, I’d rather keep the passion of supporters than lose it and weaken the fan’s power to influence the football club. Even if some people take it too far - which they undeniably do.

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

I’ve never abused a player at a match. But I can completely understand the raw emotion that leads to it.

Especially when it’s symptomatic of the wrong attitude - like a lazy miss-control of a simple ball, or a decision to turn and play an easy ball back to the keeper instead of the right ball forward.

On balance, I’d rather keep the passion of supporters than lose it and weaken the fan’s power to influence the football club. Even if some people take it too far - which they undeniably do.

I have, many times I am ashamed to say. I can say from experience, when it happens on mass, you can literally see their heads and shoulders drop. It might feel good but it does the team ZERO favours

As for the passion, it is like a morgue these days unless something goes against us, then the anger kicks in. It really isnt a very joyous place any more for fans or players. My kids refuse to go now.

 

[dannyboy]

I don't disagree, and perhaps I've not got my point across properly.

The mentality of the wider fan base is a by-product of years and years of failure and mismanagement, but to some extent it's part of the current problem too.

There isn't that relationship between the players and fans like there once was and we heralded, and again it would be fair for people to say it's the club's fault.

Nevertheless, trying to be objective I do wonder what the players (past and present) think of it. Little things like many players never getting a song these days.

It's not blaming the fans but trying to consider the wider picture. The fans need to protest at the management of the club, but equally support the players*.

Because, I can't help think that if we continue on our current path then the outcome will be worse. If that makes sense?

*to a fair extent.

I only get to Goodison a few times a season these days but the difference between how it was under Moyes and now is stark. The atmosphere wasn't even that great in the noughties but it was so much better than it currently is.

We've started selling out the stadium every week but it feels like a lot of people I've sat around in recent times are quite new to going the game regularly. They never want to sing and they never really show any discontent. Just feels like they're there for the sake it. Definitely not scientific analysis, just how I feel at the 5 or so games I get to these days.

 

[allen]

I have, many times I am ashamed to say. I can say from experience, when it happens on mass, you can literally see their heads and shoulders drop. It might feel good but it does the team ZERO favours

Yes, and I cringe every time the groans echo round Goodison after a young player - most recently Anthony Gordon - makes a mistake. But that’s life.

Football grounds are toxic and have been for generations. If you can’t block it out as a player, you won’t make it.

 

[helpimonfire]

Put the Arsenal game thread up as I need something new to moan about.

 

[dannyboy]

I have, many times I am ashamed to say. I can say from experience, when it happens on mass, you can literally see their heads and shoulders drop. It might feel good but it does the team ZERO favours

As for the passion, it is like a morgue these days unless something goes against us, then the anger kicks in. It really isnt a very joyous place any more for fans or players. My kids refuse to go now.

I do think it's more boring than toxic. Right now there's discontent in the air but that's quite rare. Usually it's just strangely quiet. How you can get 40,000 people to sit in near silence is bizarre. I'm a teacher and struggle to get it with 28.

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

Yes, and I cringe every time the groans echo round Goodison after a young player - most recently Anthony Gordon - makes a mistake. But that’s life.

Football grounds are toxic and have been for generations. If you can’t block it out as a player, you won’t make it.

I suppose. It would not be acceptable in any other job

 

[dannyboy]

can you remember when Anfield last turned on their team? Cos although they've been better than us, they've also had to watch 25 years of permanent united success. They never do. That alone has got to be worth 15 points. a season. How we have got into the position where our own players are terrified of the fan reaction is one of the many reasons we are in trouble. You seem to be presuming we have somehow hit the bottom, and have nothing to lose from making this point. We have everything to lose. Our status as a top flight club, the new ground, the lot.

I do remember the last time Anfield turned on them. It was during Hodgson's era when they were in danger of sliding down the league to being also rans. They turned the atmosphere into a toxic mess and sorted it out very quickly. That's what happens with the top clubs, failure isn't tolerated.

 

[ToffeeTim]

Yep, but protest the club NOT the players. Where is the logic in making your players worse? Because that is what happens when they get abuse, terrified to touch the ball or play a risky pass, just keep it safe, pass backwards and sideways and keep your head down

The players won't be getting abuse. The players also couldn't perform in an empty stadium last year

At some point we've got to stop blaming the fans. Its totally bizarre to constantly blame fans when the whole club is a shambles

 

[ToffeeTim]

I just don't agree, they are professional footballers and want to win. They look like a rudderless ship, and have done for about 4 years, but to say they don't care is nonsense

They don't care enough is more accurate

Lots of teams around us want to win and succeed more than us

 

[ToffeeTim]

can you remember when Anfield last turned on their team? Cos although they've been better than us, they've also had to watch 25 years of permanent united success. They never do. That alone has got to be worth 15 points. a season. How we have got into the position where our own players are terrified of the fan reaction is one of the many reasons we are in trouble. You seem to be presuming we have somehow hit the bottom, and have nothing to lose from making this point. We have everything to lose. Our status as a top flight club, the new ground, the lot.

Yes when they protested and got their previous owners out of the club

They also had a walk out that stopped a huge rise in ticket prices.

West ham also protested and the whole club changed. This isn't necessarily about forcing people out. If it raises standards at all that's a good thing.

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

Yes can fire me. I probably deserve it.

Its a funny one with fans, particularly at the match. I've not been to Goodison for a good few years (jobs, moving around etc) so my opening comment is validated. Anyway, when I did go it was intermittent but my sense was something was needed to trigger noise, excitement etc. Be it a big game, being in the chase for a trophy / fighting relegation, an injustice or even a rinsing (remember Benfica dominating us at Goodison under Moyes and folk were leaving in disgust after the 2nd went in).

The sense I get from afar is that everyone is just 'meh' until the last big emotive event. I.e. Wednesdays debacle.

More regular match goers may well tell me I'm talking crap, but just my view based on personal experience.