The Everton Board Thread (Inc. Bill Kenwright / Blue Union)

[nsno-chris]

He does, but on this matter.

CEO of Everton F.C. (2008–present)

Finch Farm
Opened 9 October 2007

We did have a CEO prior to Finch Farm as well you know.

Oh and if you think leasing Finch Farm, was a good decision, we are done here, I cant converse with somebody so blinded.

I'm not blinded, i understand the reason; there is a big difference. You must be the blind one because you are unable to accept a bsuiness decision. I've tried to explain why; can you explain how you would have funded it?

 

[Goat]

We did have a CEO prior to Finch Farm as well you know.



I'm not blinded, i understand the reason; there is a big difference. You must be the blind one because you are unable to accept a bsuiness decision. I've tried to explain why; can you explain how you would have funded it?

Bellefield.

 

[Ruairi77]

Exactly right.

I'm no fan of the current incumbents in the Everton boardroom, but the derision of the Finch Farm deal by some armchair 'experts', is somewhat simplistic.

Everton needed a state of the art training facility, they now have a state of the art training facility, that they chose to fund off balance sheet, to allow other funding streams to remain free. They also don't have to depreciate the asset, nor maintain it's structure. There are many & varied reasons why a lease is used in preference to capital funding, so unless we were privy to all of the facts at the time the decision was made, we can't say it was a bad call.

The lease costs are circa £1M, the link to the OOC's is a red herring, as is the inclusion of issue over land securitisation at Goodison.

Good post and I agree. I'm no fan of Kenwright but it's a waste of time arguing over certain points when we are not privy to all the facts. Finch Farm is one example of this. The whole argument that 'thy sold FF and now lease it back for a fortune, booo' is very simplistic.

 

[Goat]

Good post and I agree. I'm no fan of Kenwright but it's a waste of time arguing over certain points when we are not privy to all the facts. Finch Farm is one example of this. The whole argument that 'thy sold FF and now lease it back for a fortune, booo' is very simplistic.

You say simplistic, I say the truth.


Anyway, the Yearly accounts will be out in the next few weeks, I cant wait to see where the 26m in transfer fees has gone.

The OOC this Year will probably be close to 50m.

 

[nsno-chris]

Bellefield.

That was used to reduce the debt.

If your looking at your business the has a large debt there are number of things to take into accout. The income for the club would have fluctuated over a season, and in pre-season there would be virtually no income at all; hence the reason why things were outsourced. Doing this provides a preset amount and allows you more freedom over the expenditure budget; it may not seem like the best of things to do to a lot of people but it is common practice.

Things like Finch Farm would have been included into the budget, and more than likely the lease cost would in someway (probably slightly higher) match that of the running costs of Bellefield; the move away from LCC reduced the Council Tax

Once you have an idea of this, any money outisde of this would be used to reduce the debt. Now obvisouly its a bit harder for a football club than a normal business, because costs are rising all the time, and a 5 year forecast will only be as good as the paper its written on, but on still would be produced and altered on a yearly basis taking into account any foreseable rises.

To say things are easy, and what the board is doing is wrong. You have the internet and not an ounce of experience in dealing with these things; the OOC is a Red Herring until we know whats included in them

 

[Allezfan]

We're not making money is the problem. Our shirt sponsership is less than a quarter what clubs like sunderland and liverpool make, to pick a random example

And as a result we have a wage bill about the same size as bolton or west ham and have spent less money on transfers than 16 other english clubs in the last ten years (and thats gross or net). Oh and nearly 50 million pounds worth of debt.

I don't see how you can reasonably argue that we're a well run business.

 

[Brennan]

We're not making money is the problem. Our shirt sponsership is less than a quarter what clubs like sunderland and liverpool make, to pick a random example

And as a result we have a wage bill about the same size as bolton or west ham and have spent less money on transfers than 16 other english clubs in the last ten years (and thats gross or net). Oh and nearly 50 million pounds worth of debt.

I don't see how you can reasonably argue that we're a well run business.

It's all about the solid base.

 

[D410]

No buyers out there...Pffftttt

http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/sp...-mogul-bids-for-troubled-spanish-soccer-club/

 

[steken1]

You can talk about corporate finance all you like. quite simply we had a training ground worth circa £9m and sold it. We could have gone and built another state of the art one for the same price. We never because the hand to mouth operations of the club dicatated that we could not. The money from Bellefield was used to cover a massive operating loss. The monies raised from FF were used to cover another.

Operating a training ground was budgeted for and had been since we first built one. We also had to fund a separate academy before we moved to FF.

Obviously there would be a small uplift in running costs from netherton/bellefield to FF but to suggest a lease at £1.2m and rising regularly (it goes up to £1.5m in the not too distant, said so in the sales brochure for FF) was the way to go, or was done in the best interests of the club, is madness.

The total cost of raising the FF money will be well over £80m over the life of that lease. The lease is also for sale. This leaves us wide open to manilpulation as anybody with the money could buy it and attempt to stitch us up in some way.

There is no reasonable case to be made for the leasing and nobody has succeeded in trying.

 

[steken1]

That was used to reduce the debt.

If your looking at your business the has a large debt there are number of things to take into accout. The income for the club would have fluctuated over a season, and in pre-season there would be virtually no income at all; hence the reason why things were outsourced. Doing this provides a preset amount and allows you more freedom over the expenditure budget; it may not seem like the best of things to do to a lot of people but it is common practice.

Things like Finch Farm would have been included into the budget, and more than likely the lease cost would in someway (probably slightly higher) match that of the running costs of Bellefield; the move away from LCC reduced the Council Tax

Once you have an idea of this, any money outisde of this would be used to reduce the debt. Now obvisouly its a bit harder for a football club than a normal business, because costs are rising all the time, and a 5 year forecast will only be as good as the paper its written on, but on still would be produced and altered on a yearly basis taking into account any foreseable rises.

To say things are easy, and what the board is doing is wrong. You have the internet and not an ounce of experience in dealing with these things; the OOC is a Red Herring until we know whats included in them

It weren't it was used to cover a massive operating loss.

 

[Coach]

Mate, I'm trying to have a discussion, I'm not the one saying 'what working experience do you have' over and over again.

I don't think you are.

1. you are not answering questions put to you - which is normal in a discussion.

I am asking you the question so as I can make a judgement on your points - i.e. I am participating in a discussion and considering the quality of other points of view.

2. earlier, you said this about Evertonians who don't agree with you,

He didn't say they can't think, he said they don't, and it's true.

which just shows complete contempt for any other point of view not to mention other Evertonians.

 

[Brennan]

I don't think you are.

1. you are not answering questions put to you - which is normal in a discussion.

I am asking you the question so as I can make a judgement on your points - i.e. I am participating in a discussion and considering the quality of other points of view.

2. earlier, you said this about Evertonians who don't agree with you,


which just shows complete contempt for any other point of view not to mention other Evertonians.

Way to take my statement out of context. That was a discussion about what everyday match going fans think. The fact, whether you like it or not, is that most fans are led by what is said in the wider media. In the media Everton and Bill Kenwright are portrayed as the little engine that could, led by a 'true blue' who along with Moyes has done 'marvellous things' for Everton over the years.

It's not showing contempt to anybody to point out that most people don't take the time to examine things like the Finch Farm issue or Other operating costs, it's simple fact. That's the whole reason why groups like the Blue Union were established, to spread the word and inform fans about what really goes on behind the scenes at Everton, because it's not easy to get that information.

For the record, i actually disagree with some actions taken by the Blue Union, but to sit there and act as if most fans take an interest in the per annum cost of Finch Farm and say that anybody who disagrees is 'showing contempt' to fans is out of order.

You could go back on these forums and find plenty of examples of me defending fans from abuse from ardent Blue Union supporters, fans who were called idiots simply for not being as well informed. I'll never support that.

 

[Seamus Colemole]

Hey Coach :

What working knowledge do you have?

 

[steken1]

BTW, Everton will always need a training ground. The lease may as well be a securitized debt for all the difference it makes. I wonder who in the boardroom is frendly with Houston Securities?

 

[Neiler]

Yikes, some great posts in here with expertise and expirtence being shown well in!

Feeling for one or two trying to argue, badly exposed.