The EU deal

[roydo]

But by those immigrants having multiple jobs that carry them over the threshold to claim in-work benefits, and british nationals (self-employed, p/t unemployed) struggling to find more hours or better paid work, they have a distinct advantage,

Which brings it back to what you propose would happen to those already here!

I agreed with your idea re the limits and that, but they are already in place. The claiming status is the same.

The genie is out of the bottle it seems to me.

 

[Jxg]

Are you suggesting that we don't need unskilled migrants because we can always get skilled migrants to provide labour for jobs which require no skills?

No, I'm suggesting that there's enough unemployment in this country and competition for minimum wage unskilled jobs is fierce enough as it is that we don't need more unskilled migrants to further the competition and increase unemployment.

 

[Efcjake]

They don't claim benefits easier than british nationals mate. I haven't said that, if that's how it's come across....

But by those immigrants having multiple jobs that carry them over the threshold to claim in-work benefits, and british nationals (self-employed, p/t unemployed) struggling to find more hours or better paid work, they have a distinct advantage, and the nationals more obstacles to negotiate - especially when some agencies recruit exclusively from imported labour.

There is absolutely nothing stopping a British person from working multiple jobs except for themselves.

Some of the guff you are talking here... If everything you said was true then Canada (A country that has to rely on immigration to maintain a positive population growth) would be in absolute chaos.

I firmly believe that if a person wants work then they can find it. That doesn't mean it is going to be a job they want, or enjoy, or even pays well. There are plenty of crap jobs that pay money. If you want to a better job then save for an education to improve your marketable skills. It is very much possible to do this.

I worked as a dishwasher/porter until I learned enough skills to become a more well-paid cook all with the long-term goal of saving enough money for an education. I paid for my education out of pocket and I worked while studying I now have a better job and a better wage but nobody gave it to me, I had to go out and make it happen.

There is absolutely NOTHING stopping somebody else from doing the same except themselves. It won't happen overnight, but if they want to improve their situations bad enough then all they need do is apply the work to make it happen.

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

The claiming status is the same.

It is, yes.

Although I'm not sure british abroad enjoy benefits (In terms of social assistance schemes, direct welfare benefit payments etc) in EU countries under the same conditions as EU nationals do here (Whether or not ours have been labelled as 'manifestly inadequate', by the council of europe)

Welfare/benefit conditionalities vary from country to country. Some states don't even pay in-work benefits AFAIK.

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

I firmly believe that if a person wants work then they can find it.

0.5m jobs on universal jobmatch (According to this Govt) on any given day. A load of them jobs duplicated. I've provided evidence earlier.

1.69m unemployed.

Over 3:1. And that's JUST the unemployed.

Res ipsa loquitur

I worked as a dishwasher/porter until I learned enough skills to become a more well-paid cook all with the long-term goal of saving enough money for an education. I paid for my education out of pocket and I worked while studying I now have a better job and a better wage but nobody gave it to me, I had to go out and make it happen.

Bully for you! Kinell, you'd think life was a soap opera - like the cockneys - where someone simply asks for a job at the queen vic and is instantly given it.

 

[daylightrobber]

It is, yes.

Although I'm not sure british abroad enjoy benefits (In terms of social assistance schemes, direct welfare benefit payments etc) in EU countries under the same conditions as EU nationals do here (Whether or not ours have been labelled as 'manifestly inadequate', by the council of europe)

Welfare/benefit conditionalities vary from country to country. Some states don't even pay in-work benefits AFAIK.

If you're not sure, why do you bring it up intimating that they don't?

 

[roydo]

I am still struggling with the fact that EU migrants are able to work at jobs that obviously provides for them/qualifies for benefits, but Brits are seemingly incapable of doing the same.

Like I needed a job, was over qualified/too old for jobs in my profession, so took a delivery driver job. Put the hours in, and it pays pretty well. The application process was;

1. Can you drive?

2. Are you allowed to work in the UK?

Not a clue if I am able to claim owt, doubt it, but probably wouldnt bother anyrate.

I really do struggle with that being an EU thing. More a UK thing maybe?

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

If you're not sure, why do you bring it up intimating that they don't?

You'll get an answer when you:

A/ Provide concise, irrefutable evidence that I've said they don't....not intimated - that's how you've chosen to read it. Do the words: "I'm not sure..." not give you any idea?

And B/ Provide evidence they do get the same benefits under the exact same conditions we impose on EU migrants (i.e. the same as we impose on british nationals)

 

[Efcjake]

0.5m jobs on universal jobmatch (According to this Govt) on any given day. A load of them jobs duplicated. I've provided evidence earlier.

1.69m unemployed.

Over 3:1. And that's JUST the unemployed.

Res ipsa loquitur



Bully for you! Kinell, you'd think life was a soap opera - like the cockneys - where someone simply asks for a job at the queen vic and is instantly given it.

Sack your latin off lad. The numbers do not speak for themselves. There is not enough context to make any sort of statement on those two numbers you so generously provided there.

What is the composition of that 500,000 jobs? Are they looking for skilled workers and the unemployment pool only offers unskilled workers to fill those positions? You can't reduce it to two numbers and end the discussion there.

I never said anything about anyone just being given a job. What I said was to go take a job that provides you with the ability to pay for training to acquire the skills which employers are looking for.

Cut the hyperbole out and let's actually discuss this.

You're using those numbers as a safety blanket as if they prove anything at all. There is so much involved with how those numbers are determined and who is performing the calculations that you have to look at those details as well before basing any opinions off of them. How different economists and governments choose to measure the labour market (What type of workers are included, and what isn't) varies wildly.

There might be 500,000 jobs, but they could all be looking for doctors, engineers, etc. and in that 1.69 million there may not be any doctors or engineers.

How many of those 1.69 million people are looking for full-time, how many want part-time, how many have disabilities that prevent them from particular types of work? You just don't know when all you have is the number itself.

 

[roydo]

Gonna watch the match now.

Arnt we owned by a migrant now? Just saying.

 

[Efcjake]

It is, yes.

Although I'm not sure british abroad enjoy benefits (In terms of social assistance schemes, direct welfare benefit payments etc) in EU countries under the same conditions as EU nationals do here (Whether or not ours have been labelled as 'manifestly inadequate', by the council of europe)

Welfare/benefit conditionalities vary from country to country. Some states don't even pay in-work benefits AFAIK.

Why would they not?

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

I am still struggling with the fact that EU migrants are able to work at jobs that obviously provides for them/qualifies for benefits, but Brits are seemingly incapable of doing the same.

Like I needed a job, was over qualified/too old for jobs in my profession, so took a delivery driver job. Put the hours in, and it pays pretty well. The application process was;

1. Can you drive?

2. Are you allowed to work in the UK?

Not a clue if I am able to claim owt, doubt it, but probably wouldnt bother anyrate.

I really do struggle with that being an EU thing. More a UK thing maybe?

What don't you get? Do we need those people who are able to do the jobs that our own can do?

No, we don't. So why are they here, and why does our own govt impose all sorts of conditions knowing full well they're creating more barriers for our own to negotiate in order for them to earn a living?

Because the EU tells our Govt they MUST allow these people to work these types of jobs. And the Govt has to address the welfare, housing and NHS issues under those conditions.

I'm away to watch the game....manana.

 

[roydo]

What don't you get?

What you would do with all those that are already here. No agenda me, just looking for answers.

It is half time, so I am not that sad!

 

[daylightrobber]

You'll get an answer when you:

A/ Provide concise, irrefutable evidence that I've said they don't....not intimated - that's how you've chosen to read it. Do the words: "I'm not sure..." not give you any idea?

And B/ Provide evidence they do get the same benefits under the exact same conditions we impose on EU migrants (i.e. the same as we impose on british nationals)

I'd just like you to be able to speak with some authority, rather than with guesswork. As it happens, I never suggested that they do get the same benefits. I know that in some circumstances, they don't. But in the same way UK nationals don't necessarily benefit from some social assistance schemes abroad, foreign nationals won't always get the same here either. See housing benefit for EEA job seekers for example.

 

[john jako]

Can't believe I get to vote in another life changing scenario I haven't a clue about. Better start reading the daily star to find out.


In all seriousness, the amount of people who haven't a clue who can vote is crazy. Time for people who do know and who don't have an agenda to guide people through it.

Or if not just don't bother voting and smoke some crack