The bending of PSR rules

[Tin-Tin]

Theres compliance, and then what you can spend afterwards.

Selling Branthwaite/Calvert-Lewin will still be appealing to Everton to give manoeuvrability if Friedkin can allow funds to spending.

Of course, but this kids deal may allow us to hold on for value, instead of being forced to sell one or more or a fraction of their value - like Richy. Instead of having £60/65m from DCL and Branthwaite, we now may be able to hold out for another £25/30m + to reinvest.

 

[Rita_Poon]

To very roughly paraphrase, "We'd need to sell a Wayne Rooney talent every season just to keep the lights on". 'Good times TM'.

The more things change the more they stay the same.

 

[SerenityNigh]

Interesting debate on Twitter about whether the premier league will find a way to stop these obvious academy player swap deals to boost PSR position.

What’s your takes on it?

I can’t see how they can control/ stop it. As long as they aren’t over inflated prices, which I don’t think Dobbin/ Villa Tim fella are?!

10 mill for two young prospects with potential/ England youth caps & Championship experience seems a fair price?

I’m loving the fact we are being savvy. It’s obvious what’s going on, but can the hideous Masters stop this happening?

I don’t think he can…

Even if it is against PSR surely Everton can do it 114 more times before the PL would notice

 

[Milk]

As you say, as long as the fee's are not absurd then how can they stop it. Academy players move all the time and the fee's are increasing anyway.

The only way to stop it is to not back clubs into a corner.

Exactly.
Villa pushed for the PSR threshold to be raised to £130m but were voted down.
Serves Masters et al right if between Villa and us we show how to avoid the points deduction

 

[pfim]

The problem is that the rules are there to ensure football clubs are ran properly and don't get themselves in the hole we found ourselves the past 2 years. Are Everton and Villa any more profitable and sustainable now they've swapped Tim and Dobbin? The rules say we're about 7 million better off each - in reality nothing has changed

The rules are there to put a damper on salaries and fees, they always need to be looked at through that lens.

Football owners, by and large, grew tired of continuously losing money because others were willing to take losses.

As far as what happened between Everton and Villa, if you create a system there will always be a way to game it.

 

[Damo_1878]

The rules are there to put a damper on salaries and fees, they always need to be looked at through that lens.

Football owners, by and large, grew tired of continuously losing money because others were willing to take losses.

As far as what happened between Everton and Villa, if you create a system there will always be a way to game it.

Agree. Game theory in economics and business, is widely deployed and should be something we deploy. We should be doing that but within a risk mitigation strategy that minimises risks to us, from the decisions we make.

Also needs to be remembered that PSR (as domestically implemented from FFP) was a "cost control measure". To reduce wage and transfer fee inflation, whereas the member clubs explicitly rejected the "break even requirement" so that shareholder loans could be taken out to influence growth

PSR is not inherently wrong, the issue is certain clubs (via certain owners like Glazers, Fenway etc) such as Utd, City, Spurs, RS, Chelsea, Arsenal have tried to game it and use it by acquiring undue influence with the likes of Richard Masters in terms of how the rules are applied.

That is an issue.

Our former Chairman was shown to be useless as was his CEO.

That is also an issue.

 

[MisterJ]

I think it will be difficult to prove. Also Chelsea are trying to do it with Villa as well. Some would argue they actually did it last season, they sold Mount to Man Utd because of how well it worked for them with PSR, although they bought a replacement from Man City (Cole Palmer).

The premier league have already said that they can’t stop Chelsea selling hotels and training grounds to their owners to stop Chelsea breaching the PSR. I think it would be difficult for them to do it to us and Villa over this deal for Dobbin and Iroegbunam

It's why Chelsea always seem keen on selling Gallagher. If they do, it's pure profit for them

 

[billybadger]

How does swap deals benefit us with psr? Don’t really understand it

 

[PeregrineT]

Hah, Chelsea sold hotels to itself. The league will not be cracking down on teams selling players to eachother.

 

[pfim]

How does swap deals benefit us with psr? Don’t really understand it

Incoming player fees are expensed over the life of the contract.

Revenues for outgoing fees are booked the day of the transfer.

So if we sell Dobbin for 9 million, we realize a 9 million profit that day.

If we sign PSR Tim to a 5 year contract, 9 million fee, the expense is 1.8 million for the next 5 years.

9 million - 1.8 million = 7.2 million profit for year 1.

That's how it works.

In this instance, though, the profit is close to 9 million for the 23-24 accounts, because we realize the value of the Dobbin sale and we would only book one month of expense (if that) for PSR Tim since the fiscal year ends 06/30/24

 

[billybadger]

Incoming player fees are expensed over the life of the contract.

Revenues for outgoing fees are booked the day of the transfer.

So if we sell Dobbin for 9 million, we realize a 9 million profit that day.

If we sign PSR Tim to a 5 year contract, 9 million fee, the expense is 1.8 million for the next 5 years.

9 million - 1.8 million = 7.2 million profit for year 1.

That's how it works.

In this instance, though, the profit is close to 9 million for the 23-24 accounts, because we realize the value of the Dobbin sale and we would only book one month of expense (if that) for PSR Tim since the fiscal year ends 06/30/24

Excellent informative response,thank you

 

[Blast_of_Cannock]

Who was that player a few years ago we weren't allowed to sign so another club did (Greek club?) and we then signed him from them? It was a situation similar to that at least.

Was it the Nigerian striker Onyekuru(spelling?). We had to loan him to Anderlecht I think. We ended up selling him to galatasaray for a small profit, despite him never playing for us.

 

[OneTrueLegend]

How does swap deals benefit us with psr? Don’t really understand it

In the simplest form, whatever we bring in is in the years accounts. Any expenditure is spread over the years of the contract.

So we sell a player for £9m, we get £9m straight away this year.

We sign a player for £9m on a 3 year. Deal and it £3m this year, £3m next year, £3m the year after

 

[matty1878]

Joe Thomas comments on it

Two Everton transfers expose farcical Premier League spending rules

Everton FC correspondent Joe Thomas on the club's fight to stay within spending limits and how the Premier League is making compliance harder, not easier

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

joe thomas chats wham the echo chats wham

 

[Gwladys St. Glory]

All you can do to combat them is bend them so bad they have to re-write them, otherwise you buy your way your way out like City.