pfim
Player Valuation: £50m
Agreed 100%. The criticism had nothing to do with Beckham EXTENDING his loan stay.
Sir Landon Of Donovan
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Agreed 100%. The criticism had nothing to do with Beckham EXTENDING his loan stay.
Catamount
Player Valuation: £225k
Try to think of MLS as a single club with several teams that play a bunch of scrimmages. The players are employed by MLS not the Galaxy or Sounders, etc. They have all the same rights as any other player in the world. When they are out of contract with MLS they can go on a free transfer to any other club in the world.
There can be no lockout because there is only one club and the contract simply remains in force until a new one is agreed upon. Asking for free agency is like an Everton player dropped from the team demanding a better contract and more playing time. It's the same employer, same club. If the player was dropped, it's because the club doesn't want him anymore and he is free to play elsewhere.
Professional soccer in the United States has failed between 3 and 6 times prior to MLS (depending upon what you count as professional soccer) because only a couple of teams could make it work. MLS made the decision to be a single entity precisely because it gives them a chance to succeed. If the players are asking for free agency, it's like asking Manchester United to split up into 16 separate teams.
What the players need is a healthy raise, something MLS has actually pitched out on the table. Instead the players have neglected the opportunity to increase the money they can make by asking the MLS to dissolve. Makes no sense to me.
There can be no lockout because there is only one club and the contract simply remains in force until a new one is agreed upon. Asking for free agency is like an Everton player dropped from the team demanding a better contract and more playing time. It's the same employer, same club. If the player was dropped, it's because the club doesn't want him anymore and he is free to play elsewhere.
Professional soccer in the United States has failed between 3 and 6 times prior to MLS (depending upon what you count as professional soccer) because only a couple of teams could make it work. MLS made the decision to be a single entity precisely because it gives them a chance to succeed. If the players are asking for free agency, it's like asking Manchester United to split up into 16 separate teams.
What the players need is a healthy raise, something MLS has actually pitched out on the table. Instead the players have neglected the opportunity to increase the money they can make by asking the MLS to dissolve. Makes no sense to me.
N
NHRevs
Guest
Reserve Clause Follies
Yes and no. That's the sticking point.
Under the current agreement, if a player leaves on a free, his former MLS teams retains his MLS rights.
Here's how that plays out: starting MLS striker on MLS cup finalist team gets low-balled by his club for contract offer and decides to leave for Scandanavian team on a free. Striker bombs out in Scandanavia for a variety of reasons, not entirely related to quality, and seeks to return to MLS. Striker can only sign with former club unless another club compensates original club in some way (pseudo transfer fee, and you really don't wanna know about "allocations").
Club A doesn't want player anymore, player is out of contract, Club B wants player; Club A is holding Club B for ransom far in excess of player's worth.
THAT'S what the players are going to strike about unless the contracts are revised to prevent that sort of abuse.
Yes and no. That's the sticking point.
Under the current agreement, if a player leaves on a free, his former MLS teams retains his MLS rights.
Here's how that plays out: starting MLS striker on MLS cup finalist team gets low-balled by his club for contract offer and decides to leave for Scandanavian team on a free. Striker bombs out in Scandanavia for a variety of reasons, not entirely related to quality, and seeks to return to MLS. Striker can only sign with former club unless another club compensates original club in some way (pseudo transfer fee, and you really don't wanna know about "allocations").
Club A doesn't want player anymore, player is out of contract, Club B wants player; Club A is holding Club B for ransom far in excess of player's worth.
THAT'S what the players are going to strike about unless the contracts are revised to prevent that sort of abuse.
Catamount
Player Valuation: £225k
Yes. That is an internal rule made by MLS, a rule which MLS has already offered to adjust. Same sort of rule that determines whether a player will play in a reserve game or not, or be loaned to another team.
So how do you prevent this abuse:
Player A doesn't like team G. Player A likes team S better. Player A refuses to agree to a contract with MLS so he can go to team S and sign a contract with MLS. Makes no sense. MLS put the rule in to prevent exactly this situation.
It works both ways. MLS is willing to work on this, but a player can't be allowed to go to whatever franchise he wants because the franchises don't own the contracts. The player needs to agree with MLS and go wherever MLS wants them to go based upon the contract they negotiate, or go anywhere else in the world. Just like they would at Manchester United or Everton. The very essence of MLS, it's very soul is at stake here.
MLS is not quite EPL
Player Valuation: £750k
i meant strike not lock-out, just used the wrong word.
latest from the players union is that they are more leaning toward strike at this point as the lastest meeting did not go too well. Both Conrad & Cannon, two players reps, have indicated that negotiations are on the south side of 50/50. the league itself has no intention of stopping work, they have commenced with season scheduling & everything... so if there is a stoppage, it is coming from the players.
donovan had many problems with what beckham was doing and saying... and yes, he did comment in the press pubicly about beckham not returning to the team on time. while not the biggest bone of contention for him, he did make a comment about it and thus it would hang over his head if he did the same; i'm only saying i don't think donovan can extend his loan without appearing somewhat of a hypocrite - just personal opinion here though. obviously he can do what he wants.
at this point it looks like a strike (not lock-out, my bad on words) is more likely, but if that's the case an extension of the loan is a very possible option.
latest from the players union is that they are more leaning toward strike at this point as the lastest meeting did not go too well. Both Conrad & Cannon, two players reps, have indicated that negotiations are on the south side of 50/50. the league itself has no intention of stopping work, they have commenced with season scheduling & everything... so if there is a stoppage, it is coming from the players.
donovan had many problems with what beckham was doing and saying... and yes, he did comment in the press pubicly about beckham not returning to the team on time. while not the biggest bone of contention for him, he did make a comment about it and thus it would hang over his head if he did the same; i'm only saying i don't think donovan can extend his loan without appearing somewhat of a hypocrite - just personal opinion here though. obviously he can do what he wants.
at this point it looks like a strike (not lock-out, my bad on words) is more likely, but if that's the case an extension of the loan is a very possible option.
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D
dabes2
Guest
Yes, Catamount is spot on right now.
But IMO, these teams are competing businesses with a big phony legal wrapper around them. It's working for now. Don't take it as a given that it will hold up.
It's my understanding that MLS's structure is only legal because the courts determined that the business of soccer isn't viable in the USA without permitting wage collusion. That opinion could change.
But IMO, these teams are competing businesses with a big phony legal wrapper around them. It's working for now. Don't take it as a given that it will hold up.
It's my understanding that MLS's structure is only legal because the courts determined that the business of soccer isn't viable in the USA without permitting wage collusion. That opinion could change.
TX Bill
Player Valuation: £80m
Everything I've read has said that the owners WILL NOT lockout the players. And why would they? They'd be playing under the current system (which the players don't like) until they come up with a resolution.
I don't know if the players should strike to be honest. I think that they should continue to work on a resolution even with the season starting up. At least in the near term.
I don't know if the players should strike to be honest. I think that they should continue to work on a resolution even with the season starting up. At least in the near term.
Tennessee Blue Mike
Player Valuation: £50m
Listening to LA galaxy player rep Klein on the phone to Eric Wynalder he believes this season could be a no go. Which in turn could be a serious blow for the MLS to be a going concern. I would love Donovan to stay but the price due to a strike could cripple American soccer as we know it.
TX Bill
Player Valuation: £80m
Klein's blowing smoke. What else can he say?
Frankly, I don't think the players have much leverage here. Sure, they can cut their noses off to spite their faces (i.e. dragging the owners down with them) by going on strike but I think they need to really understand the economics of the league.
The league for their part does need to make some modest raises for the lower and mid tier salary earners.
They need to avoid a strike at all costs though because it really could hurt longer term.
Frankly, I don't think the players have much leverage here. Sure, they can cut their noses off to spite their faces (i.e. dragging the owners down with them) by going on strike but I think they need to really understand the economics of the league.
The league for their part does need to make some modest raises for the lower and mid tier salary earners.
They need to avoid a strike at all costs though because it really could hurt longer term.
Tennessee Blue Mike
Player Valuation: £50m
I hope your right but it does seem touch and go at the moment.
westcoast ape
Player Valuation: £100k
I agree with most of you that MLS has greater bargaining power right now, but, there are some factors that might favor the players:
Big expansion year: Philly is coming on board with a new stadium, awesome new stadium just completed in NY, the biggest media market, negotiations with Houston to get a downtown stadium, and Portland + Vancouver coming in next year. It seems like a stoppage (initiated by either party) would be incredibly damaging to just about any of these situations - halting momentum at a critical time. If the season is canceled you are looking at two brand new stadiums sitting at least partly empty, and, if the stoppage goes on long enough, possibly refunding $70M in expansion fees to the Portland/Vancouver teams.
Given all that - MLS owners have other sources of income that dwarf the tiny profits and (greater) losses that MLS teams have thus far generated. The owners probably could shut down the league without suffering overmuch.
Big expansion year: Philly is coming on board with a new stadium, awesome new stadium just completed in NY, the biggest media market, negotiations with Houston to get a downtown stadium, and Portland + Vancouver coming in next year. It seems like a stoppage (initiated by either party) would be incredibly damaging to just about any of these situations - halting momentum at a critical time. If the season is canceled you are looking at two brand new stadiums sitting at least partly empty, and, if the stoppage goes on long enough, possibly refunding $70M in expansion fees to the Portland/Vancouver teams.
Given all that - MLS owners have other sources of income that dwarf the tiny profits and (greater) losses that MLS teams have thus far generated. The owners probably could shut down the league without suffering overmuch.
Tommy Chong
Player Valuation: £70m
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