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Sir Landon Of Donovan

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American fans have this nasty habit of thinking that there is this magic pixie dust in Europe that is sprinkled on American players that makes them ten times better the second they step on a 'proper' pitch in one of the big leagues.


Donovan has been the best player for the US national team since, at least, 2002. 99% of his career has been spent on US soil and his accomplishments with the national team were downgraded because he played in MLS. He couldn't possibly be better than Dempsey, Beasley, Michael Bradley, Claudio Reyna, Brian McBride etc. They played in
Europe, ergo they were better.(n)

I think it makes you a more consistent player, players have to learn to play to a certain level week in week out, if they don't they are usually found out. One thing Donovan has talked about is the concentration levels in this League, you've got to be switched on for 90 minutes in a high tempo League. That's not an easy thing to do.

And it teaches you to become a more intelligent player. In Donovan's case learning how to beat a fullback who is very skilled defensively with limited space to work with. You can't just come up against someone like Ashley Cole or Patrice Evra and push the ball out of your feet and try and outpace them, it just doesn't happen, they'll either cut off your space or in other cases, simply match you for pace and outmuscle you. You've got to be more wise, more intelligent.

It certainly won't make him more technically gifted player, nor will it improve his pace dramatically, but small details like fitness, concentration and intelligence definitely come into it. Consistently, Donovan will improve his game in a tougher League.
 



I couldnt disagree more with this statement. Its bizarre to think that playing with and against better players wont improve your game. Everton is the perfect platform for him to showcase his talents and prove to people that he can thrive at the highest level. So far he has done exceptionally well but its too early to say he is a success overall. Its not everton that "doesnt give him the opportunity to fully express his wide array of abilities", its the quality of the opposition defenders and the immense pressure of prem games that does that. For example English football is littered with players that look like maradona in the championship but flop spectacularly in the prem. Ebanks-blake, marlon king, earnshaw, jason scotland off the top of my head. He was never going to come here and be the main man straight away. But to be considered among the best he has to mix it with the best, and so far he has done that and i for one really hope he signs a long term deal!

Yeah, but there's also players who come up from the Championship and hit the round running straight away. Kevin Phillips comes to mind. I do think they are some very good players who don't happen to play at the top level. And ten games is unlikely to improve anyone much.

I mean do you think George Best would have been a better player if he'd played at a world cup? Or just the same player on a bigger stage?
 
Yeah, but there's also players who come up from the Championship and hit the round running straight away. Kevin Phillips comes to mind. I do think they are some very good players who don't happen to play at the top level. And ten games is unlikely to improve anyone much.

I mean do you think George Best would have been a better player if he'd played at a world cup? Or just the same player on a bigger stage?


He would probably have checked out the wine.:lol:

Everyone knows he was sent here to take out some english players. Cashley done and ferdinand next week are his prime targets.
 
Yeah, but there's also players who come up from the Championship and hit the round running straight away. Kevin Phillips comes to mind. I do think they are some very good players who don't happen to play at the top level. And ten games is unlikely to improve anyone much.

I mean do you think George Best would have been a better player if he'd played at a world cup? Or just the same player on a bigger stage?


Tim Cahill kinda rings a bell more
 
For the record, Andrea Canales is a woman.

As a long time coach deeply involved in developing players in the US, I have to respectfully disagree. LD is the rule rather than the exception.

When players stay in the US until they have fully developed their ability, you get Reyna, McBride, Dempsey, Harkes, Wynalda, Lalas, Caliguri, Cherundulo, Bocanegra, Howard, Friedel, Hanneman, Joe Max-Moore, Donovan.

When they have dual citizenship or a European passport you get Dooley, Stewart, O'brien, Spector, DeMerit, Gooch. When they go to Europe to become a better player you get Adu, Johnson, Beasley, Edu, Altidore and until he returned to the US to complete his development, Landon Donovan.

LD is the first US player without college experience or a European passport to be successful in Europe and it took him longer than Reyna and Dempsey who had the college background. You can check if you want, but I've looked it up.

The evidence tells those of us that advise young people that the proven route to success for US players is to go to college, fully develop and mature in the United States and go where you are wanted (Europe for Harkes, Reyna, Dempsey, etc. US for Jones, Balboa, Pope, etc.)

If a youngster has dual citizenship or a foreign passport, there are more possibilities (Rossi, O'Brien, Spector, Gooch, Francisco Torres, etc.)

I am happy when players succeed on any professional team, whether it be Cobi Jones on the Galaxy, Clint Dempsey at Fulham or Landon Donovan. I'm frustrated when our best young prospects waste their precious time and talent on a pipe dream of Europe. It has never worked, not once. I'm glad LD had the sense to come home, or he may have ended up like Adu or Johnson.

Does playing in Europe make LD a better player? I would argue no. Everton doesn't give him the opportunity to fully express his wide array of abilities. Does it make him sharper. Absolutely. Should he go to Everton. Sure, if Everton wants him badly enough to buy him. He's an accomplished player. He should go with the best situation he can find. His US development path has earned him that right.


I disagree with you. You have named, (and another poster, as well), A HANDFUL of US PAST and present players. A handful? For a country the size of the US, this should tell us that something is wrong with the way that we develop and identify our players. That much smaller countries, like England, can point to hundreds of past and present players that play in the EPl and other good leagues. That we follow what , ONE, two, maybe three players with passion? I also do not want to hear the usual rationization that "all our good athletics go to other sports". While that has some truth, there are also thousands of US soccer players who have potential, that are never delevoped or identified. Why? because we lack now the infrastructure to identify players. Yes, the system is improving, but it still has a long way to go, and it is my belief, the the MLS/college route is not the way.

This forum has been loaded with new US based posters interested in one player, LD. He is the face of US soccer. ONE face, discounting keepers, we have how many overseas right now???? And, there are few that generate the amount of enthusiasm shown with Landon's participation in the EPL, with Everton. I really doubt if the forum boards on other EPL teams lit up when other teams bought Altidore, Dempsey or the rest. I did not follow Hull, and my son used to play with Altidore. (I am kicking myself, and wondering why did I not follow a player, I personally knew and watched play since he was about 8 years)? I have no answer. I only started following one team, and that was Everton, and that was because of Donovan. Why, because, he is the best player that the US has produced. He also has that extra that makes him fun and exciting to watch. (It was also because of Everton, some game soul, some whatever, and I was nabbed). Donovan also did not attend college, as well as Altidore.

Europe and South America have how many players that attended colleges, came out and went into the EPL or other great leagues.....get my drift here?

Outside of a few players, like LD and Altidore, this is the course for a typical US soccer player. Youth club>college>MLS. This whole course only works IF, the player got the proper coaching and training while in the club or college programs. Compared to other countries, the answer is mostly, they do not. We have to change the format in developing and identifing players. I own a small youth club soccer forum, and I KNOW how these players are trained. Some have good, some decent and some mom and pop training. Great. They get to college, and play against the same, for 4 years against the same.
It is changing with the youth academy program, but that program and ODP are rife with politics.

The MLS is a soccer league, and one that is years behind the EPL or the others. To say that it is a "breeding ground" for up coming US players, is an overstatement. Massive... to use a term left by another poster on this board.

I saw the playoffs between Real Salt Lake and the Galaxy and I was totally saddened AND shocked,(I do not watch the MLS) by the lack of skill, creativity...... the game was crap. AND this was with Beckham and Donovan. You really think that this league provides players with the training to take the leap to the better world leagues? I am not buying it. Donovan is a great player, DESPITE the MLS.

I will end this by saying that there are probably a lot of players, that England, for example identified as having potential, and they did not make it, and are now struggling in poor paying jobs and reliving their glory days. In the states, going to college, at least offers a player that bombs out, another track and an education. In this aspect this US program works. BUT, in terms of producing EPL talent level players it does not. Period.
 
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I am certain Tim Cahill hit the ground runninmg when he came to GP, did not seem to need any time to settle in. Have to say Donovan has done pretty well as well.
 
Yeah, but there's also players who come up from the Championship and hit the round running straight away. Kevin Phillips comes to mind. I do think they are some very good players who don't happen to play at the top level. And ten games is unlikely to improve anyone much.

I mean do you think George Best would have been a better player if he'd played at a world cup? Or just the same player on a bigger stage?

no but world cup is just a showcase event every 4 years.

i also think there are some very good players in the championship and probably mls, but until you do it at the highest level its impossible to judge.

plus he can learn a lot from different training and tactics even in a short space of time. not to mention from playing alongside the likes of arteta, pienaar fellaini saha etc
 
No disrespect to the MLS but it has the same standard as the Championship. Landon will improve in the premiership and it will benefit the US National team.

I'd love for him to stay on- he looks like one of the family already. For all of you that still purr over Fernandes this guy has acheived more already than that guy did in his two stints.

That's entirely reasonable. There's a big difference between The Championship and a "fourth or fifth division" league. That's the point. Just trying to limit the hyperbole a bit.
 
I disagree with you. You have named, (and another poster, as well), A HANDFUL of US PAST and present players. A handful? For a country the size of the US, this should tell us that something is wrong with the way that we develop and identify our players. That much smaller countries, like England, can point to hundreds of past and present players that play in the EPl and other good leagues. That we follow what , ONE, two, maybe three players with passion? I also do not want to hear the usual rationization that "all our good athletics go to other sports". While that has some truth, there are also thousands of US soccer players who have potential, that are never delevoped or identified. Why? because we lack now the infrastructure to identify players. Yes, the system is improving, but it still has a long way to go, and it is my belief, the the MLS/college route is not the way.

When my kid brother was 16 his club team from Toledo played the top youth club from Cleveland for what amounted to the Ohio state semi-finals -- they lost on penalties when Cleveland's hot-shot 14 year old keeper stoned them, even though my brother swears he cheated off his line. My brother is turning 40 this year and most of his mates from that club are married with kids and he and his wife are talking about having one fairly soon as well.

The keeper was Brad Friedel, and my point is that the coming generation of youth coaches are going to be the first generation where the widespread, Saturday-morning-in-the-park, youth leagues are coached by people - parents - who actually have something resembling a vague idea how the game is played. Even Man U supporters like my brother.
 
When my kid brother was 16 his club team from Toledo played the top youth club from Cleveland for what amounted to the Ohio state semi-finals -- they lost on penalties when Cleveland's hot-shot 14 year old keeper stoned them, even though my brother swears he cheated off his line. My brother is turning 40 this year and most of his mates from that club are married with kids and he and his wife are talking about having one fairly soon as well.

The keeper was Brad Friedel, and my point is that the coming generation of youth coaches are going to be the first generation where the widespread, Saturday-morning-in-the-park, youth leagues are coached by people - parents - who actually have something resembling a vague idea how the game is played. Even Man U supporters like my brother.

I love this, BUT this is a feel good, Valentine post about how US soccer has progressed. Really? It only tells you that soccer is followed more in the US than in previous years. It tells you that US soccer is followed by middle class x club players and college players.

This is a good sign, but on the other hand a bad sign for developing US players as well. Yes, soccer is an upcoming sport. Bad in that the people that follow are all college grads.

I want to see the kid that comes out of some youth club team, that no one knows about, that goes right into the EPL, or others at 19, is seen by some club in England and goes into a training program there, not the MLS. Those are the players that I want to watch.

People like you, and I wish I had your background, populate US soccer. Your kids are athletic and you have the money to spend, travel, and watch the game. Your children have the option to go into any field that they want, if they do not make it into soccer. So, then they make it in business or other pursuits. Most players world wide do not have these options.

The youth program, (and to you, who left the above post), you know that this is right. There are tons of kids that have to to be scholarshiped into programs, that lack the money to travel and to train. Some may be illegal, and some have no alternatives and will never be seen.

Bottom line is that some players are never identified as top players, and they are lost forever. The college players are identified, and their parents have the money and the intelligence to promote them. These players for the most will be journeyman players that get no where, and are paid a pittance for their time. They will leave eventually leave soccer, and go on to greener pastures and make 4 times or more than in soccer. This is the state of US soccer. BTW LD did not come from these homes but a single mom that struggled.
 
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I disagree with you. You have named, (and another poster, as well), A HANDFUL of US PAST and present players. A handful? For a country the size of the US, this should tell us that something is wrong with the way that we develop and identify our players. That much smaller countries, like England, can point to hundreds of past and present players that play in the EPl and other good leagues. That we follow what , ONE, two, maybe three players with passion? I also do not want to hear the usual rationization that "all our good athletics go to other sports". While that has some truth, there are also thousands of US soccer players who have potential, that are never delevoped or identified. Why? because we lack now the infrastructure to identify players. Yes, the system is improving, but it still has a long way to go, and it is my belief, the the MLS/college route is not the way.

This forum has been loaded with new US based posters interested in one player, LD. He is the face of US soccer. ONE face, discounting keepers, we have how many overseas right now???? And, there are few that generate the amount of enthusiasm shown with Landon's participation in the EPL, with Everton. I really doubt if the forum boards on other EPL teams lit up when other teams bought Altidore, Dempsey or the rest. I did not follow Hull, and my son used to play with Altidore. (I am kicking myself, and wondering why did I not follow a player, I personally knew and watched play since he was about 8 years)? I have no answer. I only started following one team, and that was Everton, and that was because of Donovan. Why, because, he is the best player that the US has produced. He also has that extra that makes him fun and exciting to watch. (It was also because of Everton, some game soul, some whatever, and I was nabbed). Donovan also did not attend college, as well as Altidore.

Europe and South America have how many players that attended colleges, came out and went into the EPL or other great leagues.....get my drift here?

Outside of a few players, like LD and Altidore, this is the course for a typical US soccer player. Youth club>college>MLS. This whole course only works IF, the player got the proper coaching and training while in the club or college programs. Compared to other countries, the answer is mostly, they do not. We have to change the format in developing and identifing players. I own a small youth club soccer forum, and I KNOW how these players are trained. Some have good, some decent and some mom and pop training. Great. They get to college, and play against the same, for 4 years against the same.
It is changing with the youth academy program, but that program and ODP are rife with politics.

The MLS is a soccer league, and one that is years behind the EPL or the others. To say that it is a "breeding ground" for up coming US players, is an overstatement. Massive... to use a term left by another poster on this board.

I saw the playoffs between Real Salt Lake and the Galaxy and I was totally saddened AND shocked,(I do not watch the MLS) by the lack of skill, creativity...... the game was crap. AND this was with Beckham and Donovan. You really think that this league provides players with the training to take the leap to the better world leagues? I am not buying it. Donovan is a great player, DESPITE the MLS.

I will end this by saying that there are probably a lot of players, that England, for example identified as having potential, and they did not make it, and are now struggling in poor paying jobs and reliving their glory days. In the states, going to college, at least offers a player that bombs out, another track and an education. In this aspect this US program works. BUT, in terms of producing EPL talent level players it does not. Period.

You just summed up my feelings towards MLS perfectly. Thank you.
 
For those of you who think Landon has shone his best game... he hasn't... he is a goal scoring machine. I am waiting for a game where he scores a couple of quality goals to make the Everton supporters very very happy, even though they are tremendously pleased with him already.

Toffee supporters have seen only a subset of things he can do. He won't get better doing less than he can. When there are a lot of really quality players only a few get to really express themselves. LD has been that guy and he has become top class as a result. The US needs LD taking penalties, freekicks, corner kicks, switching sides of the pitch playing forward, counter attacking, scoring on the near and far post and taking the captain's role. He needs team mates that find him when he makes the runs, like on the national team and at Galaxy.

Don't get me wrong. I think Moyes has done a superb job fitting LD in where the team needs him. It's definitely making him sharp, but he isn't playing any faster than he already does, and doesn't have to out-play two or three markers like he usually does. He seems to pretty much dominate any team that tries to mark him with one guy, whether it be an Arsenal third choice or Ashley Cole. It's hard for me to see how fitting him into a limited role makes him better.

To improve, I think he needs to be doing all the things he already does for the National team and the Galaxy and add to that. That isn't happening at Everton at this juncture. It could in the future, but I haven't seen it yet.
 
Toffee supporters have seen only a subset of things he can do. He won't get better doing less than he can. When there are a lot of really quality players only a few get to really express themselves. LD has been that guy and he has become top class as a result. The US needs LD taking penalties, freekicks, corner kicks, switching sides of the pitch playing forward, counter attacking, scoring on the near and far post and taking the captain's role. He needs team mates that find him when he makes the runs, like on the national team and at Galaxy.

Don't get me wrong. I think Moyes has done a superb job fitting LD in where the team needs him. It's definitely making him sharp, but he isn't playing any faster than he already does, and doesn't have to out-play two or three markers like he usually does. He seems to pretty much dominate any team that tries to mark him with one guy, whether it be an Arsenal third choice or Ashley Cole. It's hard for me to see how fitting him into a limited role makes him better.

To improve, I think he needs to be doing all the things he already does for the National team and the Galaxy and add to that. That isn't happening at Everton at this juncture. It could in the future, but I haven't seen it yet.
we have a first choice striker - louis, captain nev, Arteta and Baines take set pieces along with Bily and sometimes Donovan, Saha, Arteta and Baines take pens. I'm sorry if this bothers you but at Everton we're covered in all those roles and Landon will just have to fit in and play where and when needed!
 
Landon has the ability to play almost anywhere,but for me his most effective role would be just behind the strikers alongside cahill.
However should we have an injury to one of our strikers be it saha or the yak then i would love to see what he can do as an out and out forward.Ahead of vaughn and anichebe that is.
 
Toffee supporters have seen only a subset of things he can do. He won't get better doing less than he can. When there are a lot of really quality players only a few get to really express themselves. LD has been that guy and he has become top class as a result. The US needs LD taking penalties, freekicks, corner kicks, switching sides of the pitch playing forward, counter attacking, scoring on the near and far post and taking the captain's role. He needs team mates that find him when he makes the runs, like on the national team and at Galaxy.

Don't get me wrong. I think Moyes has done a superb job fitting LD in where the team needs him. It's definitely making him sharp, but he isn't playing any faster than he already does, and doesn't have to out-play two or three markers like he usually does. He seems to pretty much dominate any team that tries to mark him with one guy, whether it be an Arsenal third choice or Ashley Cole. It's hard for me to see how fitting him into a limited role makes him better.

To improve, I think he needs to be doing all the things he already does for the National team and the Galaxy and add to that. That isn't happening at Everton at this juncture. It could in the future, but I haven't seen it yet.

He can't add much more to what you listed there though?

He's learning a different style of playing here, that will benefit him and improve him as a player more than him doing the same as what he's always done for LA and the USMNT. Just my opinion though.
 

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