Roberto Martinez Shenanigans: All Reaction Here

[Billy Dean]

That's the thing isn't it.. He's very black and white in the pro's and con's columns, very little grey. He has won silverware, with a team that shouldn't of won anything... He's got relegated with a team that should of stayed up.
He attacks well
Defends poorly
Good in cups? Once
Good in the premier league? not so far

I am happy with him in, providing Moyes strengths can cover Martinez's weaknesses in the short term, and Moyes weaknesses will be removed by Martinez's strengths.
I worry we will be left though, with just Martinez being Martinez and throwing away points by ignoring one end of the pitch.

I hope its simply because he could afford decent defenders so tried to make up for it by scoring more than the opposition, doesn't seem likely though.

i imagine in the long term, just as we moaned about Moyes' caution losing us points here and there, we will moan about Martinez's lack of caution losing us points here and there, and still be in a similar position league-wise

 

[Allezfan]

so you could say that Martinez also overachieves with the resources given, just to a lesser extent than Moyes?

I would say that, yes.

 

[Allezfan]

Everton net spend in Moyes' first four years: £14.5m
Wigan net spend in Martinez's first four years: -£11.7m

What's inflation got to do with that ?

I don't think you can seperate wages and transfers that way. You have to look at the combined figures.

 

[KevMirallas]

Players improve, managers improve. Clubs suit players, clubs suit managers.

I can understand people's reservations, and I share some of them, but the pre-emotive backlash by some has been completely irrational.

Martinez has a wealth of potential as a young manger. He has a squad that, with the proper fine tuning, has similar potential to take the next step. My judgement of him will begin to form after he makes some signings, puts out a team with a formation, and displays some form of strategy. For Everton, not for Wigan.

I know all we have to judge him on to this point is his priors at other clubs, but the least any Everton manager deserves is support. What's the point of being the best fans in the world if we use it for evil instead of good?

 

[hktoffee]

Moyes inherited a team that finished 15th, martinez 11th. After three years Moyes had us 4th and Martinez had wigan 15th.

Okay Moyes first full season he spent 37.95 million (wages and net transfers combined), which was the 12th most and finished 7th. This was in a season where all 20 teams spent 860 million so he spent 4.4% of the total money.

His second season he spent 34.65 million which was the 10th most and finished 17th. This was in a season where all 20 teams spent 1002.606 million so he spent 3.45% of the total money.

His third season he spent 10.6 million which was the 20th most, less than every other team in the league, and finished 4th. This was in a season where all 20 teams spent 899.725 million so he spent 1.17% of the total money.

In Martinez's first season he spent 23.7 million which was the 19th most and finish 16th. This was in a season where all 20 teams spent 1401.202 million so he spent 1.69% of the total money.

In his second season he spent 47.3 million which was the 15th most and finished 16th. This was in a season where all 20 teams spent 1798.825 so he spent 2.62% of the total money.

In his third season he spent 36 million which was the 19th most and finished 15th. This was in a season where all 20 teams spent 1817.55 million so he spent 1.9% of the total money.

So in Moyes first three seasons he spent an average of 3.0% of the leagues total and finished 7th, 17th and 4th.

In Martinez' first three seasons he spent an average of 2.07% of the leagues total and finished 16th, 16th and 15th.

What a good post. Salute you.

 

[Brennan]

I don't think you can seperate wages and transfers that way. You have to look at the combined figures.

Wages aren't going to change the fact that while Moyes was given £15m on top of player sales to spend in his first four years that Martinez was given nothing and actually had to replace players with less than their sale price.

Doesn't matter what wages you offer if you don't actually get given the money to sign players and sustain league position.

 

[Ihaters]

We have one of the best defensive midfielders in Fellaini.
We have a centre back set up than not only reads the game well but are very mobile..

Good players will learn to develop a working system with ease, we deffo have the players to adjust.
Every team or manager will have to change something they offer as will Moyes moving to United.

I am confident that Martinez will get the best formation with the players he has at his disposal. A new manager is coming in to a successful set up, a successful manager will be able to make things work and work to their strengths...

IMO we have players who can move away from Moyes 4,5,1 or ,4,4,1,1

Successful formations are easier to adapt with a better quality of player and the players we have obviously offer flexibility as it was a character Moyes liked in his buys. Players who can do a job in various roles...

That's ideal providing he plays with a DM and doesn't push our defenders too far forwards. We don't know if he will sell players to suit his plan, or adapt his plan to suit the players is the problem.
If its the second then I think he'll be great for us
If its the first, then I am worried.

 

[EvertruvianMan]

Moyes inherited a team that finished 15th, martinez 11th. After three years Moyes had us 4th and Martinez had wigan 15th.

Okay Moyes first full season he spent 37.95 million (wages and net transfers combined), which was the 12th most and finished 7th. This was in a season where all 20 teams spent 860 million so he spent 4.4% of the total money.

His second season he spent 34.65 million which was the 10th most and finished 17th. This was in a season where all 20 teams spent 1002.606 million so he spent 3.45% of the total money.

His third season he spent 10.6 million which was the 20th most, less than every other team in the league, and finished 4th. This was in a season where all 20 teams spent 899.725 million so he spent 1.17% of the total money.

In Martinez's first season he spent 23.7 million which was the 19th most and finish 16th. This was in a season where all 20 teams spent 1401.202 million so he spent 1.69% of the total money.

In his second season he spent 47.3 million which was the 15th most and finished 16th. This was in a season where all 20 teams spent 1798.825 so he spent 2.62% of the total money.

In his third season he spent 36 million which was the 19th most and finished 15th. This was in a season where all 20 teams spent 1817.55 million so he spent 1.9% of the total money.

So in Moyes first three seasons he spent an average of 3.0% of the leagues total and finished 7th, 17th and 4th.

In Martinez' first three seasons he spent an average of 2.07% of the leagues total and finished 16th, 16th and 15th.

Fantastic bit of sleuthing there mate. Just one thing, this percentage of total spend (and wages seemingly) does it include/involve the nimrod signings like Bentley for 15 million, Berbatov for 30 million, Shevchenko, Veron, Carroll, Rooney, Torres, Robinho, Ferdinand, Dzeko. You see amalgamating percentages where certain phases of transfers have been so ridiculous will skew the point I think you are trying to make.
Perhaps a like for like would be best, including most and least expensive signings per phase as well as transfers out and where to. IIRC Bruce signed Palacios and Martinez got the mega money made on that Spurs fiasco for instance.
Average gates and ticket prices would be interesting as would TV monies earned. As the playing field wasnt level, Wigan earn through Rugby League and so the stadium costs to the football side of the business are lower and what was the initial debt Martinez was balancing the playing side of the business against.

As an after thought, we can all reel off a cacophony of Moyes transfer mistakes (Bilyaletdinov, Heitinga, Davies, Beattie) but what have Martinez's been.

 

[njligernj]

I wish I knew why so many of our fans only count away games as real.

Even the whole "can he beat the big teams?" thing doesn't make sense to me. Arsenal getting by far the least number of points against the top teams and still finishing fourth should have buried the argument that you need to beat the top teams. It's nice to beat the top teams of course but making sure you don't slip up against the bottom half teams is how you get a really good season. 84 points to be had from the teams below us. I'd rather get a manager who gets the team motivated to beat the likes of Stoke in February -- the motivation to play Man U. away should be fairly self-serve.

Having a better record against top teams away didn't save him from relegation. Perhaps should have focused more on those "six-pointers." That said maybe it's a learning experience for him and so forth.

 

[Little Ralphy]

The problem is not with the players though, if your playing a high line against a quick striker, with no defensive midfielder and your wing backs are both flying forwards at the same time, you are doomed to concede goals with ease.

Single long ball and they are behind you and one on one with the keeper.

But if you close the ball down, higher up the pitch and have your keeper ready to sweep up any more hopeful, longer balls then it won’t happen all that often. That’s exactly how Spurs played last season. It’s not as easy as people think for a side to drop the ball halfway between the 18 yard box and the halfway line and have their striker beat everyone to it.

When we played Spurs away, I’d have liked us to have held a higher line in that game because Spurs really didn’t have any pace in forward areas. Yet Moyes had Everton defending their 18 yard box, and inviting Spurs on to us. Once he took off our attacking threat, Spurs bombed their fullbacks on as we only had Victor as an isolated outlet. He did the same against Oldham away, and once we sat back and stopped keeping the ball in forward areas, we conceded.

There are lots of different ways to play football and defend. I’m not convinced that Wigan did play that way in all of their games, I really didn’t see enough of them. But Everton are fairly quick at the back, yet we struggled to defend crosses in to the box, so I would argue that Moyes didn’t really set Everton up to be at their most efficient given the players at his disposal. Maybe Martinez will get more out of them.

 

[Ihaters]

Players improve, managers improve. Clubs suit players, clubs suit managers.

I can understand people's reservations, and I share some of them, but the pre-emotive backlash by some has been completely irrational.

Martinez has a wealth of potential as a young manger. He has a squad that, with the proper fine tuning, has similar potential to take the next step. My judgement of him will begin to form after he makes some signings, puts out a team with a formation, and displays some form of strategy. For Everton, not for Wigan.

I know all we have to judge him on to this point is his priors at other clubs, but the least any Everton manager deserves is support. What's the point of being the best fans in the world if we use it for evil instead of good?

Who's not going to give him support? This is about the pro's and con's, but regardless we'll be behind the new manager when he takes over.
I would settle for some noisy fans having some fun at Goodison, rather than being the best in world but keeping quiet throughout the games to be honest. If the crowd were likethe West Ham game more often we would probably of been lifted higher up the league in the past.
Hopefully the new guy will have us playing football that gets the crowd going though.

 

[Nero]

Bill Kenwright coming up onSSN


...Says Martinez is NOT the favourite!!!!

 

[njligernj]

The season we finished 4th, we spent less than any other team in the league, something which Martinez has never done, even this year he outspent reading.

How did I not know this? That is insane.

 

[Goat]

Bill Kenwright coming up onSSN


...Says Martinez is NOT the favourite!!!!

http://www.oddschecker.com/football/football-specials/everton/next-permanent-manager

Hes not called Billy Liar for nothing.

 

[Ihaters]

But if you close the ball down, higher up the pitch and have your keeper ready to sweep up any more hopeful, longer balls then it won’t happen all that often. That’s exactly how Spurs played last season. It’s not as easy as people think for a side to drop the ball halfway between the 18 yard box and the halfway line and have their striker beat everyone to it.

When we played Spurs away, I’d have liked us to have held a higher line in that game because Spurs really didn’t have any pace in forward areas. Yet Moyes had Everton defending their 18 yard box, and inviting Spurs on to us. Once he took off our attacking threat, Spurs bombed their fullbacks on as we only had Victor as an isolated outlet. He did the same against Oldham away, and once we sat back and stopped keeping the ball in forward areas, we conceded.

There are lots of different ways to play football and defend. I’m not convinced that Wigan did play that way in all of their games, I really didn’t see enough of them. But Everton are fairly quick at the back, yet we struggled to defend crosses in to the box, so I would argue that Moyes didn’t really set Everton up to be at their most efficient given the players at his disposal. Maybe Martinez will get more out of them.

Martinez held a high line against Arsenal ffs... Walcott absolutely shredded them.
Moyes went a bit more attacking this year and it didn't really work but he generally has us with an excellent defence and plenty of goals as well. Our GD is normally pretty decent which may just be personnel, may be down to tactics, may be both.
Guess we are going to find out soon regardless of who it is