Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[MACCA75]

Sounds like you want it to happen.

Hopeless. Absolutely hopeless.

Don't be pathetic. You used to positively celebrate if Moyes lost a game.
I'm desperate for us to win, but I see such mental deficiencies in our squad that I just can't see us winning a trophy.

 

[vagant59]

Productivity increases from what to what?

These are the people who were part of a record braking season and may go on to with the cup. I'd say the focus should be on the players if the league form of late is not up to it. The manager is a proven winner. What have Baines, Jagielka, Coleman got in their medal drawer? Nothing.

I know who I'd conclude needs to look at themselves.

Proven winners can compete in any environment, not just the lottery that is the F.A. Cup

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

Productivity increases from what to what?

These are the people who were part of a record braking season and may go on to with the cup. I'd say they focus should be on the players if the league form of late is not up to it. The manager is a proven winner. What have Baines, Jagielka, Coleman got in their medal drawer? Nothing.

I know who I'd conclude needs to look at themselves.

So it's now the player's fault that they've won nowt?

That's rather interesting, Mr Bond...

 

[Khalekan]

I don't think you understand what I said.

There are people out there who have came out and blatantly said 'winning the cup is papering over the cracks' so let's say we win it there will still be people complaining about performance related issues or the manager.

And my reference to a political supporter basically means 'you cannot have an argument with somebody who believes a different political parties statement and you will never change their mind'

I understand your frustration as it can be hard to understand things on the Internet

The way I look at it, the cracks are there no matter whether you paper over them or not.

So I am more than happy to paper over the cracks if it means we lift a trophy at long last.

Then we can set about fixing the cracks properly.

 

[Groucho]

If there's anything more depressing than Everton supporters without a cup win to shout about for 21 years shrugging their shoulders at a cup win as if it were nothing

I have not said that once - I have maintained that I'd love the cup this year.

 

[vagant59]

If we win the cup all this league form stuff wont matter. The morale boost from a cup win (and presumably the cash boost from the new share holder) will ensure confidence and league form will return.

If there's anything more depressing than Everton supporters without a cup win to shout about for 21 years shrugging their shoulders at a cup win as if it were nothing, I dont know what it is. Apparently though, the Chelsea game in the previous round was a "must win" game...I wonder why if it's so inconsequential?

The cup is massive in english football and getting it a real achievement. The downgrading of it on this forum by some is merely a determination to give nothing to Martinez if he manages to steer us to it.


THAT's how pathetic things have become.

I don't think anybody is downgrading the F.A. Cup. But it should not be used to gauge the managers performance as progression in the competition depends allot on who you draw

 

[4737carlin]

After it'll be back to where it will be anyway: preparing for next season and buying players to improve the defence especially...the unit that let us down and needs gutting.

The unit the manager has no interest in you mean, or more realistically has no clue what to do with, either way yes it needs sorting, but Roberto isn't the man to do that.

 

[DrEFC]

Productivity increases from what to what?

These are the people who were part of a record braking season and may go on to with the cup. I'd say the focus should be on the players if the league form of late is not up to it. The manager is a proven winner. What have Baines, Jagielka, Coleman got in their medal drawer? Nothing.

I know who I'd conclude needs to look at themselves.

So he's inferior to say McClaren. Who is more of a proven winner if shiny things alone is what you'll base it all on?
Tactically he sets the defence up wrong. He sets the attack up well. You get away with it in the knockout cups, you don't in a league where you get a point for a draw. You'll highlight Jagielka because if you blame Stones or Mori, you're blaming Martinez. And ignore the horror that was Alcaraz

 

[bluewally]

Ok better worded, i wanted to see younger players in the team .

The previous manager dropped young players for no reason, played defenders in midfield rather than give a younger player a chance, and largely ignored the academy. As sheedy once said, his players would get a call that they were going on loan to scotland, and then he would never see them again.

when you see a team with Neville / Heitinga midfield you kinda want the younger players to come in and be part of it instead. so not just ross, but stones, del, rom, galloway, browning, robles (for a keeper) besic etc Younger players giving trust rather than treated like a liability in case they make a mistake.

Often Moyes would drop a youngster even before they made a mistake just in case they did, see duffy, vellios, barkley as examples.

Robles got the same treatment until even bobby couldn't defnd Howard.

Stones - left exposed when form was poor until injury saved him. Is that better than taking him out of firing line?

Ross would potentially have been 1st team anyway. was being eased in by Moyes, that was his way. Wrong or right.

Del and besic hardly get a game
Galloway and browning less so

I just feel theres a bit of a myth around his openness to using youth players.

 

[Igrok]

Productivity increases from what to what?

These are the people who were part of a record braking season and may go on to with the cup. I'd say the focus should be on the players if the league form of late is not up to it. The manager is a proven winner. What have Baines, Jagielka, Coleman got in their medal drawer? Nothing.

I know who I'd conclude needs to look at themselves.

How do you like to say: Jesus wept?
I think He already lost all tears for u...

 

[TheHumbleEgg]

Lol.

You have no sense of football's rich tapestry. A philistine statement if ever there's been one and an insight into the ridiculous entitled mind set that currently ruins football.

How is it an entitled mindset Dave? It's a tier based league system (aren't they all), and we're WAY underperforming in the top tier of it, surely you appreciate why it's a 'thing' for fans to wish/want us to finish as high up in that tier as possible...for no other reason than because it's the most basic example of palpable progression, it's there to see and it's based on continuity, consistency & progress and NOT (as can happen) based on a spunky little cup run (which is ace also BTW)...

A cup win - as fantastic as it'll be (crosses fingers/balls/etc) - simply isn't necessarily a set-in-stone benchmark for that sort of progression see RM's previous employ amongst others)...

A mix of both would be grand eh...

 

[Toffeelover]

Back four plus GK will be reconstituted in the summer. No question of that.

For me: out would go Baines and Stones. Coleman would just about be retained given his performances all told this season. Keep Jagileka but take the armband off him. Funes Mori and Galloway retain. Bring in a new RB cover and a LB. Bring in a CB who can lead and organise his defence and a top GK.

That would sort it.

 

[TheHumbleEgg]

Robles got the same treatment until even bobby couldn't defnd Howard.

Stones - left exposed when form was poor until injury saved him. Is that better than taking him out of firing line?

Ross would potentially have been 1st team anyway. was being eased in by Moyes, that was his way. Wrong or right.

Del and besic hardly get a game
Galloway and browning less so

I just feel theres a bit of a myth around his openness to using youth players.

I posted a snippet yesterday from an RM WIGAN Q & A...and he kinda suggests he doesn't feel 'young' players are ready 'til 22-23 (with exceptions), adding that they don't get a chance to ply their trade these days before they're 'thrown in' these days...

Wonder if he still sides with that?

 

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

Ross would potentially have been 1st team anyway. was being eased in by Moyes, that was his way. Wrong or right.

First mistake Barkley made under Moyes he was dropped like a lead balloon, must have been great for the lads confidence.

 

[Toffeelover]

Jagilelka has been lambasted by me because of his lack of leadership and organising qualities, not because of his own game. Just a major point you completely missed out there in your rush to see a contradiction that wan't there. And so what Jagielka and Stones were in the team early on; my point was that a flatter back four and less adventurous FBs was the clue to our very decent early season form. And, btw, you're not suggesting are you that Stones wasn't correctly left out for his season turning into piss?

You're countering of my point regarding personnel operating in the back four up to the derby is a fair one: I'd said the three I mentioned had played together in some permutation in all 8 games. They hadn't. So I take that back. It was three, so a minority. What was a feature of the period up to the derby, however, was the amount of game time Galloway, Browning and to a lesser extent Oviedo got in that period. Also we had Funes Mori stepping into Coleman's position on one occasion. We cant do without that. If there's one thing that was demonstrated in that period is that we dont need the Coleman/Baines FB tandem to get results.

Interesting in that our poor results are attributed by you to the players but at no time do you place any culpability on the manager.