Next manager discussion (poll reset 21/05/2016)

[mkrudden]

Would you give Martinez 11 years mate?

Nope.
Just another year.
And I blame Martinez for that increase in expectation.
After all, he's correct, why SHOULDN'T we be winning things?
As I've said before, he needs more time to finish the proposed building work. If, when finished, it is 11th/12th performances then he has to go.

 

[DrEFC]

How?
When was it an expectation to finish 4th or even 6th under moyes? Never.

"Lets get to 40 points"
"Knife to a gun fight"
"Just wanted to get out of there alive"

He quashed all expectancy, blaming finances.

Complete opposite under RM. The major criticism he is getting is his team is failing to live up to the hype HE has created.

"Money isn't the only way to achieve success"
"Everton should be winning titles"

One seemed a pragmatic pessimist, the other is delusional optimist. We need a balanced progressive manager. Make us hard to beat and add young gifted footballers to give us enough edge to turn key moments into victories. Martinez has got it arse to face in this regard and it'll cost him his job unless he learns to organise and drill a defence, or buy a fantastic couple of defenders who don't need that and can organise the defence themselves.

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

He did everything he could to downplay the notion that Everton could and should be regularly aspiring to greatness.

Whilst maintaining a regular top 8 finish....And after several disastrous starts to seasons. We could (almost) expect us to start like a snail & finish like a bullet train. The whole of the league could expect it.

We can't even expect a couple of wins on the bounce anymore under martinez...So much for expectation.

 

[eternal_defiance]

But he's won nothing.
Each to their own but it's a swerve from me.

What do you expect him to have won? It's funny but Wigan winning the cup and being awful in the league to the point of relegation meant the media made him favourite for our job.

Howe has two Manager of the Year Awards he has won the championship which Martinez has not done and he also has a manager of the decade award.

He has saved a club that was on the verge of extinction. He has changed things so drastically that now they are in the Premiership. He has met every challenge and exceeded them.

Cups are cups. League is real life. We had an advantage due to Goodison against Manchester City but blew it big style in the 2nd leg. With better players than he had at Wigan, Martinez could not get the result that we needed to get us into the final.

We have strung together two consecutive League victories twice in the past 2 full calendar years.

We have won two league matches in a row, twice in the past 24 months! Howe has bettered that and has worked wonders.

 

[Dymak]

How?
When was it an expectation to finish 4th or even 6th under moyes? Never.

"Lets get to 40 points"
"Knife to a gun fight"
"Just wanted to get out of there alive"

He quashed all expectancy, blaming finances.

Complete opposite under RM. The major criticism he is getting is his team is failing to live up to the hype HE has created.

"Money isn't the only way to achieve success"
"Everton should be winning titles"

He mentioned 4th as a target plenty of times. Plenty. As did the fans. I can't remember them all, as I wasn't keeping a tally chart, but he was certainly banging that drum in the pre-season before we beat United on the first game of the season with a Fellaini header. 4th was the objective for the latter half of Moyes' tenure.

That '40 points' thing came from his the first half of his tenure, as that was the reality of the first half of his tenure. It had been the reality for the previous 10 years prior to Moyes arriving. The 'Knife to a gun fight' thing was true at the time, with the way the top four and City and Chelsea were carrying on. And he actually said it in an attempt to diminish the high expectations that were being put his way by Evertonians who were expecting Everton to win the FA Cup against a Chelsea side that was the most expensive in history at the time.

The idea that Martinez is under pressure because of his own ridiculous chat-up lines is totally false. The pressure was going to be there anyway. The fans were targeting a 4th placed finish long before Martinez started saying we were capable, only to deliver the worst home form in our history and consecutive bottom half finishes.

 

[mkrudden]

One seemed a pragmatic pessimist, the other is delusional optimist. We need a balanced progressive manager. Make us hard to beat and add young gifted footballers to give us enough edge to turn key moments into victories. Martinez has got it arse to face in this regard and it'll cost him his job unless he learns to organise and drill a defence, or buy a fantastic couple of defenders who don't need that and can organise the defence themselves.

Absolutely, 100% spot on mate.

 

[DrEFC]

Nope.
Just another year.
And I blame Martinez for that increase in expectation.
After all, he's correct, why SHOULDN'T we be winning things?
As I've said before, he needs more time to finish the proposed building work. If, when finished, it is 11th/12th performances then he has to go.

I don't- he spouts wham at every press confidence. We could have the outbreak of WWIII and he'd say then conscription would be great for John Stone's character.

 

[Dymak]

Regardless and with respect, it cannot be argued that the expectancy under Moyes was higher. He did everything he could to downplay the notion that Everton could and should be regularly aspiring to greatness.

He did that in response to the high expectations of Everton fans. As I said, that's the heat you get at a big club like Everton.

 

[davek]

That davek eh; still playing the - if Martinez goes the only option WILL MUST and CAN only be 'the crushingly unsuccessful hoofball...dullard Moyes' - card.

I was not a fan of his methods for those last 6 years, but you have to say those last few years were all in the 5th to 8 th range.

But all we have done was to swap a dour inflexible manager who could've done better with a tweak here and there, for a personable inflexible manager etc. etc. etc.

The same people hounding Roberto are largely etc etc ...and you can prove this vaulting all the usual suspects??? No? so isn't sent down via a burning bush or what ever. It's just opinion until you do...and save yourself time vaulting me for a Moyes supporter...I wasn't.

but yours increasingly seems to be of the toxic type., you spew out well crafted and plausible inflammatory bile.

The only stink here is the hypocritical, pot calling kettle black stink, that's been a major factor in thread bans and thread locks. you ( and other copy cats ) cause then throw your pinnies over your heads and run away screaming of what 'all them others' have done ( Oh the humanity )


and the thing is that although I think he ought to go, I'm getting the feeling that Moshiri will be taking a bit of a back seat to suss out the Investment / ground rebuild / mrketing etc. bit of the train set and leave Bill to play with the footballing side of he train set.

For some reason you seem to have a lot of, for want of a better word - 'cred' with 'the great and the good' on this site, you might need to watch you don't go to that well to often and find it dry with your martinez-esque inflexibility.

just sayin like.

just sayin like.

Eh?

 

[mkrudden]

I don't- he spouts wham at every press confidence. We could have the outbreak of WWIII and he'd say then conscription would be great for John Stone's character.

lol

 

[Furey1878]

Mike Basset: Everton Manager

 

[Dymak]

And I blame Martinez for that increase in expectation.

This isn't true. Moyes would have been under the exact same level of pressure if he was serving up the same tripe and regression that we are experiencing under Martinez.

If anything expectation has decreased under Martinez from a section of Evertonians, the ones who somehow think a slide down the league table is an indicator of a forthcoming title challenge.... on the horizon.

 

[eternal_defiance]

I am sorry but this hoofball allegation under Moyes is complete nonsense.

Jagielka was a great signing for the price and has been a brilliant servant but people jump on the bandwagon and suggest all he did was hoof the ball. His passing is very good the way he crosses the field with long passes is actually very, very impressive.

We played some brilliant football under Moyes but he was restricted and sometimes he restricted himself.

This so-called hoof football led to some fantastic nights at Goodison, where the whole team and the fans were working in unison to create some brilliant memories.

David Moyes had to rely on Tim Cahill who was getting on, on Louis Saha who was finished, and on Fellaini's presence. We also suffered a lot of injuries in David Moyes' time with a small squad and no money.

I criticised David Moyes more than most yet I recognise making him a villain is absolutely out of order.

You don't make signings like Mikel Arteta and Steven Pienaar and give youngsters like Jack Rodwell a chance if your intention is to play hoofball.

 

[DrEFC]

He mentioned 4th as a target plenty of times. Plenty. As did the fans. I can't remember them all, as I wasn't keeping a tally chart, but he was certainly banging that drum in the pre-season before we beat United on the first game of the season with a Fellaini header. 4th was the objective for the latter half of Moyes' tenure.

That '40 points' thing came from his the first half of his tenure, as that was the reality of the first half of his tenure. It had been the reality for the previous 10 years prior to Moyes arriving. The 'Knife to a gun fight' thing was true at the time, with the way the top four and City and Chelsea were carrying on. And he actually said it in an attempt to diminish the high expectations that were being put his way by Evertonians who were expecting Everton to win the FA Cup against a Chelsea side that was the most expensive in history at the time.

The idea that Martinez is under pressure because of his own ridiculous chat-up lines is totally false. The pressure was going to be there anyway. The fans were targeting a 4th placed finish long before Martinez started saying we were capable, only to deliver the worst home form in our history and consecutive bottom half finishes.

The difference between us and sides that had a flying Rooney/Ronaldo, Thierry/Viera, Gerrard/Torres through out his stewardship is palpable compared to the now. The difference between the top 4 clubs and the rest decreased due to finances, Man Utd thought it was due partly due Moyes's stewardship and hired him. They were wrong, Man Utd were gonna likely fall on their arse regardless, and despite some ill feelings to Moyes from myself, they'd of benefited from them keeping him another season.
Edit: although his lack of panache in attack would of seen him hounded out sooner rather than later. He'd of probably walked the league this year though. It's the year of defend first, snatch goals and defend for your life it seems.

 

[davek]

I am sorry but this hoofball allegation under Moyes is complete nonsense.

Jagielka was a great signing for the price and has been a brilliant servant but people jump on the bandwagon and suggeslst all he did was his hoof thr ball. His passing is very good the way he crosses the field with long passes is actually very, very impressive.

We played some brilliant football under Moyes but he was restricted and sometimes he restricted himself.

This so-called hoof football lead to some fantastic nights at Goodison, where the whole team and the fans were working in unison to create some brilliant memories.

David Moyes had to rely on Tim Cahill who was getting on, on Louis Saha who was finished, and on for Fellaini's presence. We also suffered a lot of injuries in David Moyes time with a small squad and no money.

I criticised David Moyes more than most yet I recognise making him a villain is absolutely out of order.

The whole football industry in this country had us pegged as a direct football team. Overwhelmingly a correct description. Our signature move was to get to the halfway line and punt it 40 yards to Fellaini or Cahill and then challenge for the second ball.

Scientific it was not.

Moyes earned Everton the agricultural tag. He was not Everton class.