New Everton Stadium Discussion

[Tom Hughes]

Both Milan clubs are behind a new ground move, I am going in November to catch a game as it's a bucket list ground for & is sadly going. Stadiums are changing, they need to be used on matchdays as well so tarting up Goodison I'm sure can be done but the space around the place won't change much, parking. land etc.

I believe so, they've been pondering various possibilities, making it smaller or even one club staying..... to the latest: a brand new stadium. Their problem is slightly different in that the existing stadium is too big with current attendances in Italy, plus both clubs have wanted independent stadia and pondered moving in the past. However, I have visited the San Siro a couple of times and it is an amazing stadium that has I said has been redeveloped continuously over its 90+ yr history. They don't all have to look like Old Trafford.

 

[Tom Hughes]

It adds weight to the notion clubs building new stadia are living in a fools paradise where riches and transformation to greatness are guaranteed when in reality all evidence points to a cursed venture. The footballing gods slipped in a title for Leicester to distract attention then used the stadium to down his chopper.. Remember the soothsayer and his prophesy in Shalespeares play Julius Caesar - "beware the tides and Mosh"

You have been warned

"Beware the tides and Mosh"....... haha, i may have to pinch this!!

 

[Stephen Gibson]

Don't mind me, I'm just drowning in all this good luck we've had at Goodison in the last 30 odd years. God i hope the "new stadium curse" doesn't happen to us & stop this amazing run of trophies & titles we've been winning.

 

[Tom Hughes]

Don't mind me, I'm just drowning in all this good luck we've had at Goodison in the last 30 odd years. God i hope the "new stadium curse" doesn't happen to us & stop this amazing run of trophies & titles we've been winning.

Do you mean the stadium that has seen more top flight games than any other.... bar none?

 

[The binman chronicles]

Do you mean the stadium that has seen more top flight games than any other.... bar none?

Well thank god for that, else the top players might have sidestepped us for teams that are in the CL or have won something.

 

[Stephen Gibson]

Do you mean the stadium that has seen more top flight games than any other.... bar none?

That's because we used to be a hell of a team. Now we are very good at staying distinctly average in the top division. Also, pretty much every other club has moved ground, some several times.

 

[Jacko93]

Birkenhead is nearer the city centre, would you suggest putting it there?

I'm not assuming anything regarding transport.... I'm also not inventing public transport that isn't there already. The Northern Line is a great asset but at present it can only move approx 6000 people per hr in both directions. It also doesn't serve the vast majority of the main connurbation, and in anycase Sandhills is actually further from BMD than GP is from Kirkdale. Therefore, in the absence of public transport, how are we all going to get there? The dock road is getting reduced to one lane each way as we speak. Great Howard St is already very busy and is barely served by any buses. So it looks like we're all walking from town which is over 1.5 miles from Liverpool 1, and over 2 miles from Lime St Stn. How are the shuttle busses going to negotiate the few traffic lanes available to move the numbers required?

Well clearly I wouldn't suggest putting it in Birkenhead, the mention of city centre proximity was in response to your comment of it only being a short distance closer to Lime Street than Goodison is now (assuming that Lime Street will remain the major inward transport hub of Liverpool), and that BMD will never be the centre. The City Centre is moving north, as shown with upcoming investments in the 10 streets, Pall Mall developments, Liverpool Waters etc. The dock road is getting reduced to one lane as we speak, yeah, but it is highly likely that much of that will be closed to traffic anyway on matchday, creating singular incoming arteries for road traffic as required with a more direct and 'pedestrian light' route

The thing that impresses me so much about the vision of BMD is that it is based upon a vision of what Liverpool will be, what the transport networks will be, what the transport methods will be, rather than what it is now which by its very nature will be 3 years out of date by the time the project may be completed.

There was a time for redevelopment of GP, but I personally believe that it has passed. It is beyond now what the ground itself can give us, it's more about what the entire environment can give us. I love the experience of GP, and have done for the 21 years I've been going, I'm absolutely making sure that my lads are going to experience it (my eldest already has a ST) and I genuinely feel for those who wont have the opportunity (there may be ways to keep some part of it for posterity, to allow generations to come some access to at least part of the GP experience). However, BMD for me is an opportunity for the new age of Everton and for it to be aligned with the new age for the city.

 

[Tom Hughes]

That's because we used to be a hell of a team. Now we are very good at staying distinctly average in the top division. Also, pretty much every other club has moved ground, some several times.

Most clubs haven't moved. Only 2 large clubs (50k+) Spurs and Arsenal have built new stadia. 2 others were gifted theirs. Arsenal and Spurs had the luxury of massive waiting lists and London's corporate demand which has gone a long way to paying for it. The 2 most successful clubs have redeveloped.....

 

[Jacko93]

The actual construction cost for LFCs mainstand was £74m. There were additional costs for ancillaries.
Their new Anfield Rd stand will cost approx £60m. The result will be a 61k stadium increased from 45k for a construction cost of just £134m.

In my article (which is a few years old) I also cited other existing redevelopments using actual costs. Taking off the upper Bullens, reprofilling the lower adding capacity in an extended lower tier and larger upper stand would be transformational and not piecemeal in any way. It would cost less per seat than Anfield because the lower tier is shallower and the construction volume would be proportionally less. Yes, my figures are broadbrush for the purpose of discussion.... but if anything I'm inflating what was ratified by several stadium architects at the time.

The cost of their new main stand was £114m was it not? with their new Anfield road expansion set to come in at approx £80m (was originally £50m, is now nearer £60 but is expected to rise further).

 

[Bluebonic]

Most clubs haven't moved. Only 2 large clubs (50k+) Spurs and Arsenal have built new stadia. 2 others were gifted theirs. Arsenal and Spurs had the luxury of massive waiting lists and London's corporate demand which has gone a long way to paying for it. The 2 most successful clubs have redeveloped.....

The RS only redeveloped because the Stanley Park plans fell through? So hardly a valid argument so far as the RS is concerned? As has been said before, I think the option to redevelop has gone now and Moshiri and Usmanov seem to want a big shiny new ground.

 

[Bluebonic]

Well clearly I wouldn't suggest putting it in Birkenhead, the mention of city centre proximity was in response to your comment of it only being a short distance closer to Lime Street than Goodison is now (assuming that Lime Street will remain the major inward transport hub of Liverpool), and that BMD will never be the centre. The City Centre is moving north, as shown with upcoming investments in the 10 streets, Pall Mall developments, Liverpool Waters etc. The dock road is getting reduced to one lane as we speak, yeah, but it is highly likely that much of that will be closed to traffic anyway on matchday, creating singular incoming arteries for road traffic as required with a more direct and 'pedestrian light' route

The thing that impresses me so much about the vision of BMD is that it is based upon a vision of what Liverpool will be, what the transport networks will be, what the transport methods will be, rather than what it is now which by its very nature will be 3 years out of date by the time the project may be completed.

There was a time for redevelopment of GP, but I personally believe that it has passed. It is beyond now what the ground itself can give us, it's more about what the entire environment can give us. I love the experience of GP, and have done for the 21 years I've been going, I'm absolutely making sure that my lads are going to experience it (my eldest already has a ST) and I genuinely feel for those who wont have the opportunity (there may be ways to keep some part of it for posterity, to allow generations to come some access to at least part of the GP experience). However, BMD for me is an opportunity for the new age of Everton and for it to be aligned with the new age for the city.

I am not so sure the transport pans are future proofing matters, I was genuinely surprised that the dock and the river aren’t being utilised? Surely all the blues who live on the Wirral or in wales etc. would have utilised a ferry connection had one been factored in? That would have reduced vehicle and rail travel volumes substantially and genuinely doffed the cap toward our maritime heritage?

 

[Onwards Evertonians]

The cost of their new main stand was £114m was it not? with their new Anfield road expansion set to come in at approx £80m (was originally £50m, is now nearer £60 but is expected to rise further).

I'd sooner the club paid the extra money for a state of the art stadium on prime waterfront land with a fanzone the size of the Pier Head personally. Having town just down the road too, it's going to be special. The rs would too.

 

[Goat]

The cost of their new main stand was £114m was it not? with their new Anfield road expansion set to come in at approx £80m (was originally £50m, is now nearer £60 but is expected to rise further).

The true cost of the Andield development was 50 families removed from their homes in the pursuit of money.

That price isnt worth paying.

 

[Stephen Gibson]

Most clubs haven't moved. Only 2 large clubs (50k+) Spurs and Arsenal have built new stadia. 2 others were gifted theirs. Arsenal and Spurs had the luxury of massive waiting lists and London's corporate demand which has gone a long way to paying for it. The 2 most successful clubs have redeveloped.....

Hardly an argument to stay put just because a more successful club is still in thier old ground.

 

[The binman chronicles]

The cost of their new main stand was £114m was it not? with their new Anfield road expansion set to come in at approx £80m (was originally £50m, is now nearer £60 but is expected to rise further).

Yes but don't worry we've been told we've got fully costed plans to redevelop Goodison!

Only how can you have fully costed plans if we develop by piecemeal? So by the time part A or even B are out the way, the developer could have gone bust or your needs have changed that then requires a redesign etc. etc.

Every year of delay would see approximately a 2% rise in costs and I'd imagine to get to the point where CPOs have been handed out would be somewhere in the region of 5 years, so that'll be 10% on top and so on.

When we didn't have any options that was the time to think about this, being proactive and buying up and then leasing all the homes that come on the market around Goodison. But even if we had we still could never have the fan plaza that new stadiums offer up. The chance for Everton owned outlets to bring in the income before and after the game. I would be interested in seeing the results of a poll of who wants to stay at Goodison against moving to BMD.