New Everton Stadium - Hill Dickinson Stadium

[marty mcfly]

Well, I think we can guess as to the effect of a new stadium on future income and most estimates suggest £6m in additional income. I'll be generous and suggest that a new stadium will reduce operating costs, so let's say we're a net £10m a year better off.

How much will a new stadium cost? £200 million at least. My point is that there is little reason to seek that level of investment for that level of increased income, which will not materially affect our on-field performance.

Importantly, albeit they're not disclosing this publicly, the major shareholders hold the same view.

No public subsidy, no new or improved stadium.

So if it's not worth it then why are every other club in our position going ahead with their new stadium plans?

The stadium is a huge investment that will only pay off over decades. Shareholders want returns in years. That's the problem. As fans of the club who will still be fans in 20 years we need to keep the pressure on to make sure they make a new stadium a reality.

 

[mrb85]

Any team in the bottom 8 could get relegated every season if they have a bad year.

Once the new stadiums are built or moved into that will mean Chelsea, Utd, City, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Spurs and West Ham will almost always be above us. We will be a solid mid-table team playing for nothing each year. In another 10 years what makes you think we won't be a bottom 8 team.

Regarding additional income. You have no idea of what difference it would make because we have no idea how it will effect the commercial side of things. New stadiums with modern facilities are a draw for corporate clients. It won't add a lot on to the gate receipts but it could potentially be a game changer in respect to the corporate side. Then you also have to factor in the prestige of the new ground in attracting better sponsorship.

I find it odd that you seem to think we're different to every other football club around the world who have recently moved into a new ground.

What makes us so special?

Lots of clubs have moved into new grounds and then been relegated. Others have moved into smaller stadiums and strengthened, none more so than Juventus.

PS - do you think the way we are run would mean we'd improve the commercial side of a new stadium?

 

[marty mcfly]

I'm not going to, but I think you could argue that it's this kind of refusal to acknowledge the intangibles of brand building that has seen the club make so little commercial progress in 20 years.

Which is exactly my point above. These things aren't felt over the next couple of years but rather over decades. We've fallen from one of the best teams in Europe to a team struggling to get into the Europa League. With other teams pushing ahead with their plans that will push us further down to mid-table.

Where does it end? Relegation?

 

[marty mcfly]

Lots of clubs have moved into new grounds and then been relegated. Others have moved into smaller stadiums and strengthened, none more so than Juventus.

PS - do you think the way we are run would mean we'd improve the commercial side of a new stadium?

The size isn't the biggest factor. The corporate income those teams can make from a new stadium is.

And yes I think having an old stadium is a huge drag on our potential to increase the commercial side.

 

[mrb85]

The size isn't the biggest factor. The corporate income those teams can make from a new stadium is.

And yes I think having an old stadium is a huge drag on our potential to increase the commercial side.

Potential yes -- but we'd need to replace our whole commercial team to make it real. And if we'd need to do so if in a new ground then we equally need to do so now.

 

[marty mcfly]

Potential yes -- but we'd need to replace our whole commercial team to make it real. And if we'd need to do so if in a new ground then we equally need to do so now.

I don't really know enough about that. Some of the deals in hindsight look idiotic now but I don't know all the details so it's hard to judge.

 

[MickA]

So if it's not worth it then why are every other club in our position going ahead with their new stadium plans?

The stadium is a huge investment that will only pay off over decades. Shareholders want returns in years. That's the problem. As fans of the club who will still be fans in 20 years we need to keep the pressure on to make sure they make a new stadium a reality.

For comparison, Kirkby was estimated to have given us an extra £6m per season based on a 47,000 average attendance. The stadium itself was costed at £78m.

 

[marty mcfly]

For comparison, Kirkby was estimated to have given us an extra £6m per season based on a 47,000 average attendance. The stadium itself was costed at £78m.

You didn't answer my question. If these stadium developments aren't worth it then why are the clubs building them?

 

[Moomin]

I want to see more details of the WHP scheme, if we ever get to that point.

The days of a stadium been used just for match days are long gone now. York Community Stadium is a very good scheme for its size. 8000 seated stadium for York FC and the Rugby League team. Sports Centre, leisure facilities and a commercial hub. We could take inspiration from it.

 

[The Esk]

You didn't answer my question. If these stadium developments aren't worth it then why are the clubs building them?

Most stadium developments are part of a wider regeneration programme or part of a mixed use residential/commercial development. Almost all have significant public subsidies to assist the investment case.

Building a new stadium without supporting developments alongside and without public subsidy is just not feasible.

Everton it seems have neither significant public subsidy support nor significant additional development capability.

 

[MickA]

You didn't answer my question. If these stadium developments aren't worth it then why are the clubs building them?

You can't generalise, each situation is unique to the city and club in question.

New
Arsenal/Tottenham - big clubs located in one of the worlds financial hubs both with ST waiting lists.
West Ham - built for the Olympics
Man City - built for the commonwealth games and now owners are building a huge local legacy with top notch facilities
Leicester, Sunderland, Stoke, Southampton, Swansea - all one club cities who's existing stadia were either decrepit or grossly under-sized.

Re-developed
Villa, Chelsea, Liverpool, Man United, Newcastle. If a new stadium was a golden ticket why have these (all top 10 English clubs) clubs stayed? They stayed because it was the right thing to do for their business and the costs/benefits stacked up.

I've yet to hear anything to suggest that WHP (or any new stadium) is the right thing to do. Kirkby certainly wasn't in the best interests of the business.

GP can be re-developed and should be included in any future stadium conversations.

 

[joey_macmo]

I want to see more details of the WHP scheme, if we ever get to that point.

The days of a stadium been used just for match days are long gone now. York Community Stadium is a very good scheme for its size. 8000 seated stadium for York FC and the Rugby League team. Sports Centre, leisure facilities and a commercial hub. We could take inspiration from it.

Thats what a city centre stadium brings with regards to conferencing etc, cant see many firms rocking up to Wally Hall Park for a meeting can you?

 

[markmarkmark]

GP can be re-developed and should be included in any future stadium conversations.

Can be but probably wont, our already average gate receipts would take too much of a hit.

Or... Kenwright is saving up a big stadium war chest of money to blow it all on a shiny new ground like this

 

[MickA]

Can be but probably wont, our already average gate receipts would take too much of a hit.

Or... Kenwright is saving up a big stadium war chest of money to blow it all on a shiny new ground like this

Haha. There's so much good design out there it really is frustrating that we're doing nothing regarding the stadium.

 

[JordanianEmbassy]

Haha. There's so much good design out there it really is frustrating that we're doing nothing regarding the stadium.

Absolutely. I wonder how much just reconfiguring the main stand would cost? (ie new roof, corporate tier below top balc etc).