New Everton Stadium Discussion

[paultheblue]

Similar to the Mersey Tunnel for so many years. When they found a tunne with buckets of coins (no word of a lie there!), they realised the size of it.

However alongside the steward element, the club did famously play with the attendance figures as some of the players had attendance clauses.

Didn't a couple of the workers have yachts ?
They use to block off the bottom of the coin bins then empty them out simple but brilliant

 

[arch stanton]

Similar to the Mersey Tunnel for so many years. When they found a tunnel worker with buckets of coins (no word of a lie there!), they realised the size of it.

However alongside the steward element, the club did famously play with the attendance figures as some of the players had attendance clauses.

didn't the tunnel workers go on strike and they replaced them with honesty boxes that brought in way more money in than when the tolls booths were manned?

 

[PhilM]

didn't the tunnel workers go on strike and they replaced them with honesty boxes brought in way more money in than when the tolls booths were manned

I'm not sure - it could easily be true. The scale of the skim was ridiculous with some, at points, taking close to taking what would now be £1 in every £2.

I may be wrong here, but I seem to recollect that they were caught out due to a jilted lover disclosing what was going on and the investigation found it.

 

[Julius Geezer]

I'm not sure - it could easily be true. The scale of the skim was ridiculous with some, at points, taking close to taking what would now be £1 in every £2.

I may be wrong here, but I seem to recollect that they were caught out due to a jilted lover disclosing what was going on and the investigation found it.

A lad I used to work with was mates with one of the fellas that got caught , he got 4 years but had paid his mortgage off and had a villa in Portugal which he kept , no proceeds of crime act then.

 

[PhilM]

A lad I used to work with was mates with one of the fellas that got caught , he got 4 years but had paid his mortgage off and had a villa in Portugal which he kept , no proceeds of crime act then.

Aye, it was immense amounts of money that they projected had been stolen as it had been going on for years and it was rife throughout the workforce.

 

[Gardocki]

That's the point..... the closer the front row is to the touchline, the steeper the resultant tier has to be for a given c-value to be achieved. So by moving back you can lower the rake angle and the back row of that tier can drop dramatically.... The upper tier can then extend forwards with the overlap formed being an increased capacity or a reduction in footprint if there are spacial constraints. I think there is sightline modelling software on line, or if you know excel the formula is quite simple to make your own. I had to model several stands for sightline quality over 25yrs ago for work I was involved in.... including GP.

But isn’t the point that the upper tier is already as steep as is allowable, meaning you can’t make it steeper than it already is.

Also, why the need to move the lower tier back. Just reduce the rake and tuck it under the upper tier. By pushing the lower tier away from the pitch you lose those rows close to the front, only to try and recover them underneath the upper tier.

 

[Connor]

 

[BullensRoad]

So as we're allowed to have the 1:1 ratio increased? This means the concourse is massive so no risk of getting your warm carling bashed all over the place?

I think in the CGi video it does look twice as big as Spurs (spurs also seem to have levels ie stairs for more space).

 

[Tom Hughes]

But isn’t the point that the upper tier is already as steep as is allowable, meaning you can’t make it steeper than it already is.

Also, why the need to move the lower tier back. Just reduce the rake and tuck it under the upper tier. By pushing the lower tier away from the pitch you lose those rows close to the front, only to try and recover them underneath the upper tier.

The upper tier does have a maximum rake. (I think that is now 35° in the UK). However, upper tiers can have the minimum c-value of say c-60 (or less), because elevated and steeper tiers already offer better overall views with higher viewing angle/aspect and shorter viewing distance (if overlapping). So they can be brought forward slightly and/or their front rows lowered. As regards moving the lower tiers back. If you just stay in the same position and just lower the rake angle, the c-value reduces dramatically. C-value is far more noticeable and important in lower shallower tiers. However, the good thing is that it only requires a small movement of 1-3m (dependent on your initial starting point) to lower that tier's back row by several metres for the same c-value sightline. So while you lose that front row or 2, you might gain a multiple row overlap. It's a bit difficult to explain without a sightline modeller but when you manipulate the geometry you can generally create overlapping tiers in almost any given envelope. This then produces a greater capacity for footprint or conversely a smaller footprint for a given capacity. Hence the reason why GP accommodates nearly 40k on a similar footprint to Bolton's stadium, which only holds 28k.

 

[Gardocki]

The upper tier does have a maximum rake. (I think that is now 35° in the UK). However, upper tiers can have the minimum c-value of say c-60 (or less), because elevated and steeper tiers already offer better overall views with higher viewing angle/aspect and shorter viewing distance (if overlapping). So they can be brought forward slightly and/or their front rows lowered. As regards moving the lower tiers back. If you just stay in the same position and just lower the rake angle, the c-value reduces dramatically. C-value is far more noticeable and important in lower shallower tiers. However, the good thing is that it only requires a small movement of 1-3m (dependent on your initial starting point) to lower that tier's back row by several metres for the same c-value sightline. So while you lose that front row or 2, you might gain a multiple row overlap. It's a bit difficult to explain without a sightline modeller but when you manipulate the geometry you can generally create overlapping tiers in almost any given envelope. This then produces a greater capacity for footprint or conversely a smaller footprint for a given capacity. Hence the reason why GP accommodates nearly 40k on a similar footprint to Bolton's stadium, which only holds 28k.

Thanks, Tom. You sound like you know what you're talking about, I just don't get the principle.

 

[Tom Hughes]

Thanks, Tom. You sound like you know what you're talking about, I just don't get the principle.

No worries.... I studied it years ago (particularly in relation to GP and its redevelopment). I am a bit of a stadium anorak too and have worked on a couple of stadium projects in structural design. I probably haven't explained it great. It is slightly counter-intuitive. Only when you manipulate that geometry do you see how you can often greatly vary or optimise a configuration for a given envelope. I think there are sighline models you can download if you want to play with the options or analyse an existing stand/stadium.

This probably explains it far more clearly:

Line of sight - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Davideeyore]

Is there any news on the stadium due? Say Friday, or Monday?

 

[Goat]

Is there any news on the stadium due? Say Friday, or Monday?

I really, really hope not.

 

[Jacko93]

Theirs was designed for safestanding too. The whole lower section is already set up for it. They also have a super riser half way up to ensure that those seated behind will still have clear sightlines. I think they also have bigger tread depths there than those proposed at BMD, meaning that if the safe standing ratio is increased beyond 1:1, then they will be able to have a higher ratio than us.

They won't because they designed concourse and facilities for a maximised seating capacity. They may get a small uplift, but not to the level that BMD has been designed for.

 

[Sadken]

Does anyone have a clue when the steel structures are going up.?