New Everton Stadium Discussion

Tom Hughes

Player Valuation: £1m
The cost was just to show what can be done with upgrading and what can be done with a fresh start. RM were lucky that during covid they could reprofile without doing it piecemeal having to shut each area during the season. That would have significantly increased costs. Expect Barca's to be a lot more by the time/if they get around to it as well.

No one is debating that Goodison couldn't be redeveloped, it's just an almighty pain in the backside. If them and City paid 60 million each to build upon what was already there and both increasing capacity by only 6,000 shows you give or take to upgrade Goodison will cost the best part of 300 million. And that's at the point the ground is cleared and there is space to build. In our case that could be another 5/6 years and building costs may have increased and the will to continue may have ceased. It would be at best a 10 year project where we lose income as we shut down each stand and a lot could happen in that tineframe.

Then on top you have the holy trinity of problems where if you were to build a stadium in Liverpool afresh you wouldn't put it where Goodison is. Fact. Doesn't matter how many boxes we put in it we are not getting thousands more than who already pay for it now. They can get away with it due to their elevated status. You also have the issue regarding space around the ground, I know you champion that it only takes a few houses to knock down to get the extra stand width, but what about the space around the stands? Modern stadiums let people mill around with space much like we'll be able to at BMD especially important in this covid world. To get that sort of landscape you will have to flattern a whole lot more, again more time and money. Then commercially - a point you keep ignoring we aren't getting naming rights at Goodison and this is what effectively pays for the loan to build BMD. At goodison we would be using the extra capacity to pay off the costs instead of putting that money into the team. See the difference?

As I said previously, if in the 90's we had built a two tier PE holding 12k and the club had started making a real effort in buying up property along GR so the main stand could be squared off then we could and should have stayed. Their inaction has brought us to a point that forced us into this position of having to leave. It is far better now to make that harder decisive decision to go instead of skip along like a stone on a beach being bashed around by outside factors. By the time the land has cleared we might not have a TV deal to back up the costs, who knows. You have to strike while you can and we've been 15/20 years behind in that respect. When you add and subtract everything the two methods (rebuild or move) would come out very similar so it is 100% the right thing to do.

The fact is the costs rarely come out that similar, which is why so many of the bigger clubs redevelop as shown. Yes... it's a much simpler choice for small to medium clubs, building new stadiums at £1-2k per seat. The sale of the existing site alone might cover that.... but with that price per seat rising almost exponentially for every 10k of capacity, that balance can quickly shift, as demonstrated. That cost is dependent on several factors but is generally proportional to volume and complexity of construction. Putting new upper tiers above the Lower Bullens tier for instance would require significantly less construction volume than at City or Anfield where they were going up 4-6 storeys before even adding any capacity..... but even working at their cost per seat would be less than half that of BMD to achieve the same capacity.

Yes GP isn't the ideal location in many respects, but logistically it had one of the fastest dispersal rates in the UK when the football research unit did their studies a few years ago. Waterfront stadia are only viable if they are actually in the city centre and served by nearby mass transit systems and bus networks to all city region areas. The Northern Line is a life-line for BMD, but needs a closer station to really play its part.... and also needs extending as it only properly serves a small proportion of the main conurbation's population. Some of those things may well be in the pipeline, but they're not in place yet. Hopefully that will happen. When a transport modeller looked at some of the proposed sites at the time of destination Kirkby I think the Loop site did by far the best.

As regards naming rights the NWHL has yet to achieve a deal.... Usmanov has shown that he's prepared to sponsor fresh air if it's possible.... so I'm not sure that argument about sponsoring GP really stands.

I completely agree that if he has pledged to cover much of the cost via a sponsorship deal and that is BMD specific, then that is probably the way to go..... but we haven't heard anything solid about this, and as yet the club still haven't been able to secure the finance off the back of that pledge, which doesn't really add up.
 

gazzaa2

Player Valuation: £6m
I think you mean the old St.James station which closed in 1917 but still exists. If you look over the wall in Stanhope St. you can see the remains of the platform etc. I think some funding is already in place ,no idea of cost.. Maghull North cost about £10m a few years ago and was a relatively simple build in a cutting. I'd love to see a new station near BMD but it's on an elevated section ,the cost would be enormous.

It's a fairly expensive and difficult job though because of where the site is and the tunnels etc to build a station back there. It's not a straight forward site to just reopen the station.
 

BigbarryL

Player Valuation: £500k
Is it just me or does anybody else think Tom Hughes's posts remind you of the George Martin character in The Big Train sketch show from some years back? Anybody know what I mean?
Reminds me more of Malcom the modern parent from The Viz.
 

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MickA

Player Valuation: £10m
I think you mean the old St.James station which closed in 1917 but still exists. If you look over the wall in Stanhope St. you can see the remains of the platform etc. I think some funding is already in place ,no idea of cost.. Maghull North cost about £10m a few years ago and was a relatively simple build in a cutting. I'd love to see a new station near BMD but it's on an elevated section ,the cost would be enormous.

I'm really disappointed in the rail 'plans'. Sandhills after a game would be quite dangerous which is why I suppose they are 'coralling' people outside the entrance to the platforms.
 

dockroad

Player Valuation: £950k
It's a fairly expensive and difficult job though because of where the site is and the tunnels etc to build a station back there. It's not a straight forward site to just reopen the station.
No of course not .I think they are looking to buy a triangle of land at street level for ticket offices etc. and put in lifts .It's going to be extremely difficult to work on site without line closures too. That area by Cains is changing rapidly I hardly recognise it now .
 

tommye

It's the hope that kills you...
Mods,can you please start a new thread for people who wish to talk about how we might have redeveloped Goodison. This thread is for those of us who want to talk about the new stadium, the one that is currently being built at the bottom of Boundary Street, the one I am really looking forward to seeing being constructed and where I will be enjoying my football in a couple of years time. Thanks. ☹️
I tried that.

Alas...
 

Tom Hughes

Player Valuation: £1m
Gents (and Ladies),
I was looking at BMD, central docks and the Loop site, and was in meetings with LCC and owners of those sites when some of you were happy-clapping BK, and enthusiastically voting for Kirkby, slagging off and trying to shutdown KEIOC on various Everton Forums. How did that all go again?

So I'm at least as, if not more invested in BMD as anyone else on this site.

Firstly, I didn't start this sequence of posts. Others continued to reference redevelopment of GP and/or make comparisons with BMD. Why not? After all, the very recent Feyenoord example shows that with a moving financial target, you always have to refer back to the redevelopment benchmark. The problem is, unlike every other club that has ever approached the stay/move conundrum.... we can't! I have merely responded to those people and the subsequent posts. Some of you still appear to adhere to the mythical world of Kirkby and gospel according to BK, Wyness, Elstone etc..... I don't!

Agreed, some responses are too lengthy, but I may have been responding to several posts in one and prefer to back-up my answers with facts, figures and real comparisons....a boring trait I know, but it's not Twitter after all. So, I do apologies to the resident ADHD sufferers.

However, I don't apologise to those who try to shutdown discussion (on a discussion forum?) because some of those facts/figures don't necessarily fit their narrative. Nor to those hiding behind pseudonyms that feel the need to resort to ridicule or personal insults because they have little or no argument. I agree, if the moderators feel that I have ruined or not contributed to the thread, then they should ban me. If not......well, far be it from me to suggest a new dredger/fish-pun thread for our new found marine enthusiasts or dummy spitters? 🤪

I did laugh at the George Martin sketch tho....
 

Tom Hughes

Player Valuation: £1m
No of course not .I think they are looking to buy a triangle of land at street level for ticket offices etc. and put in lifts .It's going to be extremely difficult to work on site without line closures too. That area by Cains is changing rapidly I hardly recognise it now .

The Baltic triangle project is several years ahead of the Ten Streets one.... but the Vauxhall station would be a far easier and quicker fix. It also has the much larger Liverpool Waters scheme (and BMD) riding on it too. Perhaps the new funding could deliver both.
 

Johnnytotal

Player Valuation: £1.5m
Gents (and Ladies),
I was looking at BMD, central docks and the Loop site, and was in meetings with LCC and owners of those sites when some of you were happy-clapping BK, and enthusiastically voting for Kirkby, slagging off and trying to shutdown KEIOC on various Everton Forums. How did that all go again?

So I'm at least as, if not more invested in BMD as anyone else on this site.

Firstly, I didn't start this sequence of posts. Others continued to reference redevelopment of GP and/or make comparisons with BMD. Why not? After all, the very recent Feyenoord example shows that with a moving financial target, you always have to refer back to the redevelopment benchmark. The problem is, unlike every other club that has ever approached the stay/move conundrum.... we can't! I have merely responded to those people and the subsequent posts. Some of you still appear to adhere to the mythical world of Kirkby and gospel according to BK, Wyness, Elstone etc..... I don't!

Agreed, some responses are too lengthy, but I may have been responding to several posts in one and prefer to back-up my answers with facts, figures and real comparisons....a boring trait I know, but it's not Twitter after all. So, I do apologies to the resident ADHD sufferers.

However, I don't apologise to those who try to shutdown discussion (on a discussion forum?) because some of those facts/figures don't necessarily fit their narrative. Nor to those hiding behind pseudonyms that feel the need to resort to ridicule or personal insults because they have little or no argument. I agree, if the moderators feel that I have ruined or not contributed to the thread, then they should ban me. If not......well, far be it from me to suggest a new dredger/fish-pun thread for our new found marine enthusiasts or dummy spitters? 🤪

I did laugh at the George Martin sketch tho....
reported
 

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