New Everton Stadium Discussion

[Ste2018]

This is the latest report of something that started in 2017. There is little coincidence of DBB having a significant leadership role. This will solve many of the issues, being placed within 0.6 mile from the ground.

Station Commission begins journey towards a world class rail station for the Liverpool City Region

<p>The Comission will design a blueprint for taking forward proposals for a new station in the City Centre, to enable the city region’s connection to HS2 and Northern Powerhouse Rail.</p>

www.liverpoolcityregion-ca.gov.uk

Has a potential site been identified?

 

[MickA]

Also @Tom Hughes I believe the new trains we're supposedly getting will hold 50% more passengers.

We have the trains, but I know from family members who work for Merseyrail, that there was a massive balls up, and these trains are currently not compatible with many or all of the stations on the network, despite extensive work having been done to many stations - in advance of their arrival - to accommodate them.

I can't remember the exact details of why they can't be used at our stations, but suffice to say, it was a massive balls up, that's surprisingly been swept under the rug somewhat.

When will this be sorted? I don't know, it's all gone very quiet, but you'd hope it will be sorted at some point

They had to move the doors of the front/back carriages to the middle as the platforms aren't long enough. Or something like that.

 

[MickA]

Has a potential site been identified?

Always thought the easist site would be Exchange. Scrap the redevelopment at the back and re-instate the station and then you'd have a mainline station in the heart of the CBD.

 

[Ste2018]

Always thought the easist site would be Exchange. Scrap the redevelopment at the back and re-instate the station and then you'd have a mainline station in the heart of the CBD.

I remember a figure of £6 billion being mentioned and when I seen that my thoughts immediately turned to it ain't gonna happen.

Climate has changed also in that people are now far more adjusted to home working.

 

[mrb85]

Hopefully there will be enough in and around the ground for people to linger longer than normal. That way the crowds will disperse more slowly over time.

Unless our home form improves by 2024 the dispersal problem will solve itself, with thousands making an early dart. Anyway, plenty of time to find a solution since we won't be out of lockdown til 2030.

 

[Davideeyore]

That would be absolutely perfect. I'm trying to remember from the planning docs if that was one of the spaces earmarked for coach parking.

It was earmarked for a transport hub, new train station would be there if it ever gets built.

 

[Davideeyore]

I hope they have contactless-only payment in the ground and the ale is filled up via those posh from-below pumps like Spurs have. Not that I'll be there to benefit from it cos I haven't been in years, but for the actual fans.

We do have them at Goodison but NEVER push up the plate at the bottom !!

 

[Kever10]

Is it just me, or are you just not acknowledging the city centre stations and the pull that travelling via the city centre will have for many, many fans?

I'll repeat. Sandhills is the same distance to BMD as Goodison is to Kirkdale. You know what else are similar distances? Goodison to Sandhills and BMD to Old Hall Street.

We're effectively going from having Bank Hall, Kirkdale and Sandhills as the stations that get used, to it being Sandhills, James Street and Old Hall Street/Moorfields.

Good old Bank Hall is also a viable option, and will be my station of choice for the journey to the ground. I'll head into town afterwards.

You say "Yes.... in terms of rail it's approximately 30% better than Goodison for direct services and capacity at Kirkdale"

Is Old Hall Street not 100% better then?

Again, I don't think you're taking into account the pull of the city centre and the knock-on effect it has upon what mode of transport people use. I know quite a few people who only use public transport to go to town.

I reckon the pull of the city centre will see more of our fans using public transport.

You know what else town has? A good bus station.

You mention Moorfields, Old Hall Street, James Street, Sandhills and Good old Bank Hall as all being accessible to the site, even though they are essentially 3 consecutive stops (some with several exits) along the same line. It's only the same as using Orrell Park, Walton and Rice Lane as additional Services to Goodison, which is essentially getting the same train further or nearer along the exact same route. Sandhills would take the brunt being closest and the gate way to 3 incoming strands from the North side, as well as everything that comes out of the centre and beyond. You also have to consider that as it is literally the only way in and out of the city, as well as servicing our fans, it's also going to have regular passengers as well. Imagine if you will an evening midweek kick off and people leaving work in Town and Bootle and the surrounding areas. As pointed out, if the intention is to flip the 60/40 ratio of private to public transport, that is an increase already, without factoring in the 33% increase in attendance.

Which brings us to the next point Tom made, about the lack of dispersion options for a new ground with 1 exit side and 2 possible escape routes, as opposed to Goodison which has 4 sides and countless routes leading directly to motorways and the city centre.

Anyone who has witnessed the Strand on occasion for an event at the Echo Arena, roughly 1/5th the capacity of BMD and a damn sight closer to the Town centre, would surely have some concern with the logistics, obviously without factoring in work that is as yet unplanned, let alone up and running.

1 final point. Bank Hall to Sandhills in 5 minutes? It takes a couple minutes by actual train. I don't think I could run that distance in that time along the actual track, which would be the shortest distance by a way. I would say 15 minute walk minimum. And again, just another stop further down the same line, hardly an alternative service.

 

[Dr Baxter]

Transport will be fine, after a time. Maybe we should consider getting more to use the trains. A while after we're in, I'll certainly be using the train rather than driving.

As Billy Butlin used to say "book early"

 

[Dr Baxter]

That would be absolutely perfect. I'm trying to remember from the planning docs if that was one of the spaces earmarked for coach parking.

(By chance, if you look on Google Earth there is a train exactly at that point on the track)

View attachment 123543View attachment 123544

Unless our home form improves by 2024 the dispersal problem will solve itself, with thousands making an early dart. Anyway, plenty of time to find a solution since we won't be out of lockdown til 2030.

Is that you Dave?

 

[John from Bootle]

You mention Moorfields, Old Hall Street, James Street, Sandhills and Good old Bank Hall as all being accessible to the site, even though they are essentially 3 consecutive stops (some with several exits) along the same line. It's only the same as using Orrell Park, Walton and Rice Lane as additional Services to Goodison, which is essentially getting the same train further or nearer along the exact same route. Sandhills would take the brunt being closest and the gate way to 3 incoming strands from the North side, as well as everything that comes out of the centre and beyond. You also have to consider that as it is literally the only way in and out of the city, as well as servicing our fans, it's also going to have regular passengers as well. Imagine if you will an evening midweek kick off and people leaving work in Town and Bootle and the surrounding areas. As pointed out, if the intention is to flip the 60/40 ratio of private to public transport, that is an increase already, without factoring in the 33% increase in attendance.

Which brings us to the next point Tom made, about the lack of dispersion options for a new ground with 1 exit side and 2 possible escape routes, as opposed to Goodison which has 4 sides and countless routes leading directly to motorways and the city centre.

Anyone who has witnessed the Strand on occasion for an event at the Echo Arena, roughly 1/5th the capacity of BMD and a damn sight closer to the Town centre, would surely have some concern with the logistics, obviously without factoring in work that is as yet unplanned, let alone up and running.

1 final point. Bank Hall to Sandhills in 5 minutes? It takes a couple minutes by actual train. I don't think I could run that distance in that time along the actual track, which would be the shortest distance by a way. I would say 15 minute walk minimum. And again, just another stop further down the same line, hardly an alternative service.

They might be on the same line, but they're also directly connected to the Wirral Line (Old Hall Street, James Street.)

Are you suggesting the rail links won't be better than Goodison?

As for Bank Hall to Sandhills. Yes, the train takes two minutes, around a bend. It's irrelevant really. I was using Sandhills to highlight to a point. Bank Hall is 1.3 miles away from BMD.

 

[Dr Baxter]

The site referred to earlier in the thread (thanks for posting the photo) is, of course, ideal for another station. I suspect it will get built eventually. I would guess the distance from Moorfield platform to Sandhills platform is about 1.5 miles (says it is 1.8 walking, by the way) which for city centre/inner city is a fair lick and a station in between in more than warranted. If they are looking to develop the area the station should come sooner rather than later. That's what should happen rather than wait until it is developed and then build a station.

Those arches from just on the edge of town to Sandhills are a massively underused asset. Could be some really good stuff there such as pubs, snack bars etc particularly those opposite the Stanley Dock where the car park is supposedly being built. There is a great pub in the arches at one of the stations in Wigan, if I am not mistaken I think they expanded into the arch next door.

 

[Kever10]

They might be on the same line, but they're also directly connected to the Wirral Line (Old Hall Street, James Street.)

Are you suggesting the rail links won't be better than Goodison?

I don't think there will be much in it tbh.
Anyone coming from those areas now will still be coming from the same places. Goodison, as is pointed out, has the bus service from Sandhills which isn't used extensively, and foot traffic from Kirkdale, Walton, Rice Lane and Orrell Park depending on where people get on or get off. Anyone who would otherwise use these other stations would all use Sandhills or Moorfields. Some of the people using Wirral lines and places further afield into Lime Street, would continue to do so but have fewer options in terms of busses etc (currently). Or they can walk, which is not as close as some people seem to think, especially in the rain, along the waterfront and down what is essentially an industrial site rather than houses and shops. Again, this is likely to change, but I'm talking about the here and now.

The increase in attendance means it will be more congested, regardless. The lack of viable roads in and out, and the scarcity of parking means this will only get used more and be busier. For instance, we currently walk to and from the ground from Bootle, or occasionally get a taxi, which are usually hesitant to go much further than Carisbrooke Road for fear of getting caught up in gridlocked traffic around County Road. So we will in all likelihood be getting a train, from either Seaforth or Orrell Park and through to Sandhills. I'm sure there are thousands and thousands more who will be doing the same, so we can likely add a good hour on the time we are going to have to leave and when we would likely get home. And that is going to be the case for many unless the infrastructure is changed massively.

As for Bank Hall to Sandhills. Yes, the train takes two minutes, around a bend. It's irrelevant really. I was using Sandhills to highlight to a point. Bank Hall is 1.3 miles away from BMD.

I just have no idea where you got 5 mins from is all. Even Google maps has 14 mins as it's quickest route going up to 18 minutes depending on the route you take. The relevance is that Bank Hall would only be a viable option if you were going on the Southport line and decided that walking the extra 15 mins might ease congestion at the Sandhills stop, which again, is the same line. Its still going to have the same people all using the same 1 way in 1 way out system. Its not an additional service route.

 

[John from Bootle]

I don't think there will be much in it tbh.
Anyone coming from those areas now will still be coming from the same places. Goodison, as is pointed out, has the bus service from Sandhills which isn't used extensively, and foot traffic from Kirkdale, Walton, Rice Lane and Orrell Park depending on where people get on or get off. Anyone who would otherwise use these other stations would all use Sandhills or Moorfields. Some of the people using Wirral lines and places further afield into Lime Street, would continue to do so but have fewer options in terms of busses etc (currently). Or they can walk, which is not as close as some people seem to think, especially in the rain, along the waterfront and down what is essentially an industrial site rather than houses and shops. Again, this is likely to change, but I'm talking about the here and now.

The increase in attendance means it will be more congested, regardless. The lack of viable roads in and out, and the scarcity of parking means this will only get used more and be busier. For instance, we currently walk to and from the ground from Bootle, or occasionally get a taxi, which are usually hesitant to go much further than Carisbrooke Road for fear of getting caught up in gridlocked traffic around County Road. So we will in all likelihood be getting a train, from either Seaforth or Orrell Park and through to Sandhills. I'm sure there are thousands and thousands more who will be doing the same, so we can likely add a good hour on the time we are going to have to leave and when we would likely get home. And that is going to be the case for many unless the infrastructure is changed massively.



I just have no idea where you got 5 mins from is all. Even Google maps has 14 mins as it's quickest route going up to 18 minutes depending on the route you take. The relevance is that Bank Hall would only be a viable option if you were going on the Southport line and decided that walking the extra 15 mins might ease congestion at the Sandhills stop, which again, is the same line. Its still going to have the same people all using the same 1 way in 1 way out system. Its not an additional service route.

I never claimed it was an additional service route. I'm simply pointing out it's a third station within a radius of 1.5 miles to BMD.

Yes, there's areas which will have fans that find it harder than some to get to the ground. A new station would be great, but I don't think it solves the issues you've just highlighted either.

I think you're well off about the rail links not being better, but you're right in respect that buses need to be in place.

Other than reopening the loop line, I don't feel there's a solution to logistics for some people, in regards to rail travel.

Edit. it used to take me 7 minutes to get from Bank Hall to Sandhills Lane via Bankhall Lane.

 

[Kever10]

I never claimed it was an additional service route. I'm simply pointing out it's a third station within a radius of 1.5 miles to BMD.

Yes, there's areas which will have fans that find it harder than some to get to the ground. A new station would be great, but I don't think it solves the issues you've just highlighted either.

I think you're well off about the rail links not being better, but you're right in respect that buses need to be in place.

Other than reopening the loop line, I don't feel there's a solution to logistics for some people, in regards to rail travel.

Edit. it used to take me 7 minutes to get from Bank Hall to Sandhills Lane via Bankhall Lane.

I just don't think it is that big an improvement on what we have currently, other than the fact that more people coming in from the Wirral Line to Moorfields/Old Hall Street for instance, might choose the 30 min walk to BMD than they would to Goodison from the same stop, as it is roughly half the distance. For those who wouldn't walk, they would change to go to Sandhills, which is still a 15 minute walk, same as it would be from Kirkdale to Goodison.

The infrastructure is the same, but with much more impact on the bottle neck at Sandhills both on incoming and outgoing traffic, with a considerable increase in attendance (33%) and a considerable increase in people who are going to rely on public transport.

Like you say, other than reopening the loop line, it is essentially going to be the same service that is currently there, with a slight incentive for people to walk the extra distance down what is currently, not a particularly pedestrian friendly route through an industrial estate, and across the Strand which is chaotic at best.

Like you, I do hope there are some plans for easing this with busses etc, but I still see similar problems, as access to the Dock roads from town would still have to currently go right through the strand down the 1 available route there is.