Moyes linked with Villa and Spurs

[sirblue57]

Well that's an ignorant position to take.

I told you why here:



No I'm not happy with Everton's position. I'm furious that the ground hasn't been redeveloped in the past 15 years and we're missing the expanded capacity.

However I count my blessings that we're not indebted like Villa, and that I'm not deluded like many Villa supporters to think that they're in a marvellous positon.


They've gone from Moyes, Hughes and Ancellotti with millions to spend, three weeks ago, to Martinez and grim reality this week.

So there we go. RELATIVE.

Thank god I'm an Evertonian. But we need redevelopment of infrastructure pronto.[/QUOT

ok. so how long before the business plan at everton , (don't laugh at the back) gives us the ability to raid the transfer market and rival teams like, sunderland,birmingham etc. seeing as we will be light years behind the bigger clubs due to chronic under investment. not being funny or anything, i just want to focus on our shortcomings,also, i dont think these new rules from EUFA will make a major difference to us and our lack of finance . because one thing im sure of, if we do not sort our problems out soon, moyes WILL move on eventually. and god help us if its sooner rather than MUCH later.

 

[Allezfan]

Eh, Villa have spent a lot of money on transfers and wages to try and reach that next level. They never really did it, though and if Damon's right and that phase is over and they're going to be spending less from now on then and if that means they're going to lose their best players and not replace them then you'll have to say they've gambled and lost (as they didn't win anything during their 'good times').

We never gambled at all, because we didn't have the money to splash about, though I would say our team needed far less investment to reach that level.

The result might be that we had a better season than Villa did this year but we also had a a better season than Villa did two and three years ago. VIlla were never the team we really needed to overtake.

Two/three years ago, we were the fifth best team in England, not really good enough to catch the top 4 that often (though we came close twice and were damned unlucky the year we did finish fourth) but better than the rest of the league. Now City and Spurs have joined the elite and we're probably the seventh best team in England, not really good enough to catch the top 6 but better than the rest of the league.

It's all very well comparing us with Villa, Newcastle, Sunderland, Bolton, Stoke, Fulham et all. Those are teams we're currently doing better than despite spending less money. And good for us, you know. But I don't want to be the best of the rest, I don''t want to be 7th, I want to do what Spurs and City have done and catch the elite. It's the gap between us and the big boys that's worrying me, not the gap between us and the Sunderlands of the world.

I think if you're looking over your shoulder you're doing something wrong.

 

[orchard]

-and what about Spurs?
Seriously though,Mat you have some financial data pertaining to our club, how about attempting to determine where our money goes as best we can,and proceed from there constructively,perhaps in an alternative thread?

 

[Matt Damon]

ok. so how long before the business plan at everton , (don't laugh at the back) gives us the ability to raid the transfer market and rival teams like, sunderland,birmingham etc. seeing as we will be light years behind the bigger clubs due to chronic under investment. not being funny or anything, i just want to focus on our shortcomings,also, i dont think these new rules from EUFA will make a major difference to us and our lack of finance . because one thing im sure of, if we do not sort our problems out soon, moyes WILL move on eventually. and god help us if its sooner rather than MUCH later.

It'll curb wage inflation and put pressure on it downward. It'll put a premium on returns for investors coming in wanting to build up club infrastructure (and club value). Therefore encouraging that type of investment.


The type of investment we need relative to other clubs, to realise our potential revenue streams which exceed that of our rivals such as Sunderland, Newcastle and Villa.

 

[sirblue57]

so your saying it will make us more of an investment for buyers?

 

[Matt Damon]

I think if you're looking over your shoulder you're doing something wrong.

You should always watch your back as well as whats infront.

Villa's one less to contend for Europe. Although we've gained one from Man City.

Its all in a state of flux.

Our key thing is that we've got a crop of youngsters coming through and a manager who knows how to buy.


Its up to this board to pull their fingers out and either sell or get that INFRASTRUCTURE investment in, but not on cheapskate or lazy projects (like retail parks and ground sharing).

This means they have to accept their margins will not be as big!

 

[Matt Damon]

so your saying it will make us more of an investment for buyers?

The whole thing is designed to put football clubs on a trend to being decent businesses. Something that they've spiralled away from.

I've told you before this is coming from pressure from the EU commission, and the Lisbon Treaty.


So yes. Because we're less indebted. We have revenue streams we haven't tapped. YES we are a very good investment.

Its just the margin Kenwright et al are asking for is too big.

 

[ford_uk]

It says alot if they can't even tempt Martinez from WIGAN ATHLETIC !

I thought they would get Martinez to be honest, it speaks volumes that he has opted to stay at Wigan

 

[sirblue57]

You should always watch your back as well as whats infront.

Villa's one less to contend for Europe. Although we've gained one from Man City.

Its all in a state of flux.

Our key thing is that we've got a crop of youngsters coming through and a manager who knows how to buy.


Its up to this board to pull their fingers out and either sell or get that INFRASTRUCTURE investment in, but not on cheapskate or lazy projects (like retail parks and ground sharing).

This means they have to accept their margins will not be as big!

we are so screwed.

 

[sirblue57]

I thought they would get Martinez to be honest, it speaks volumes that he has opted to stay at Wigan

im praying they an convince Rafael to take the job, i miss laughing at that deluded t't.

 

[kenada_blue]

I am. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. As a football club, on limited means (we've established why this is), Everton are run well as a business.

Unfortunately football is all about 'keeping up with the Joneses'. And we're doing this quite nicely.

It's not anyone's ideal scenario, I'd love there to be a multi million pound warchest to buy, buy, buy. But I'm a realist. We're Everton. It's not going to happen overnight unless an oligarch or Sheik comes out of the woodwork. It will happen given time IF the right moves are made off the field...and this does not necessarily involve the extraction of the existing board. The worry is that in football, new ownership generally equals rash, speculative investment which is a very bad thing.

Which is true to a point.

But the problem is....the current board do not have anything in place off the field. If they do, they have limited means and long time scales.

The only thing that could change would be a new owner to take steps the current board cant/havent done but again this takes time...and also neglets the team.

We can all wax lyrical about what the can do, but forgetting how this effects the team and transfers on the pitch.

We also forget that Moyes has been 9 years and has handled his situation perfectly in terms of eyeing talent with limited resources. BUT how long can that last? Moyes will want to prove himself elsewhere at some point, so as these fictional plans for infastructure take place, we will still have the same transfer policy.

Our success with this transfer model is solely down to Moyes. If he is out of the equation, his type is a rare breed and would be a big gamble to replace and bring a level of success we want. And Moyes has proved that this model only gets you so far.

There is the problem that hasn't been addressed. Well have to work to the same contraints we have now on the field while measures may take place off the field for a long long time.

Arsenal have the best business model, but have not won anything in 6 years and rarely spent. Key players are wanting to leave.

Compare them to us and how we want to be and youll see the huge task and problem without any investment in the team, a small investment in our case.

 

[Chang Elephant]

I am. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. As a football club, on limited means (we've established why this is), Everton are run well as a business.

Agreed, we have been relatively well run for the last 6 or 8 weeks.

The last foul ups were the annexe development behind the car park (we didn't possess the legal rights for redevelopment), and probably before that was the £400K lost in court (unsuccessfully pursuing a pre season tour organiser), but there's been nothing since that we know about yet.

Why are we on limited means again?

 

[manxtoffee]

I thought they would get Martinez to be honest, it speaks volumes that he has opted to stay at Wigan

It does. I get the feeling Davey will be glad he swerved the Villa job.. They are so goosed financially they'll struggle for any kind of stability, hence their performance on and off the field in the next few years will nosedive. It's not looking good for them.

 

[manxtoffee]

Come on lids. Why are we still banging on about our own situation, endlessly chasing our tails, when the focal point of this debate was Moyes going to Villa. Guess what? He ain't going.

Discuss..

 

[sw blue]

With Freidel gone, Young going & maybe Downing jumping ship if a top six club comes in for him, Villa are breaking up. Someone would have to build up from scratch to make Villa a real team again. Everton are a better more stable team than Villa right now.