2020/21 Mason Holgate

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i know 24 is young is real terms but do you still consider it to be young as a footballer?
100%. How many games has he played in the premier league in his career so far? Its bonkers the level of expectation put on young players imo. They have dips in form and suddenly they are gash and must be sold. Even our established players are up and down, nature of sport I guess.

We would have no chuffing players if we flogged em as soon as they drop their performance level. The lads who consistently perform below the level we need by all means I agree need moving on but players like Holgate who have shown what they can contribute, he's young, had a few injuries and been in and out of the side, no chance. More to the point we need a squad of players not some Fifa superstar 11.
 
hi guys i am not sure if it is a well kept secret but there is this magical concept which sometimes makes players play well and sometimes bad but the best thing about it is that it is only temporary so i hear. some people refer to it as “ form “ and others say it means the things wearing your favorite blue shirt are humans and not machines. just passing this on my best buddies have a beautiful day.
 
100%. How many games has he played in the premier league in his career so far? Its bonkers the level of expectation put on young players imo. They have dips in form and suddenly they are gash and must be sold. Even our established players are up and down, nature of sport I guess.

We would have no chuffing players if we flogged em as soon as they drop their performance level. The lads who consistently perform below the level we need by all means I agree need moving on but players like Holgate who have shown what they can contribute, he's young, had a few injuries and been in and out of the side, no chance. More to the point we need a squad of players not some Fifa superstar 11.

hes mid-20s, the 'young players have dips in form' excuse doesnt really apply for me.
hes just out of form since coming back from injury and not playing much at centre back due to the form of mina and keane. dont think its anything to do with age.
 
Don't know who advises the players, muscle doesn't equal strength. Lots of slightly built players have bossed games and intimidated opponents.
The article included an interview with their sports nutritionist I think. Talks in detail about how they've supported DCL and Holgate to bulk up to improve their games - https://theathletic.co.uk/2353957/2...n/?article_source=search&search_query=holgate

Don't want to quote too much in case I get into copyright trouble:

"Mason has taken a bigger interest too in the last 12-18 months, and as a centre-back he knows he needs to be slightly bigger and heavier so again he works very hard in the gym,” Parker says.

“For him, it’s just about doing the right things from a dietary point of view; he’d agree he’s not always been the best but it’s something he’s improved on recently and he’s seeing the benefits of it.”"


As a side note, I've got a subcription to the Athletic - I really rate their everton coverage. I got a couple of 'free passes' for friends if anyone wants a free month (think you might have to provide card details and it auto-renews so be careful)... drop me a message if you'd like a code (I gain nothing from it).
 
The article included an interview with their sports nutritionist I think. Talks in detail about how they've supported DCL and Holgate to bulk up to improve their games - https://theathletic.co.uk/2353957/2...n/?article_source=search&search_query=holgate

Don't want to quote too much in case I get into copyright trouble:

"Mason has taken a bigger interest too in the last 12-18 months, and as a centre-back he knows he needs to be slightly bigger and heavier so again he works very hard in the gym,” Parker says.

“For him, it’s just about doing the right things from a dietary point of view; he’d agree he’s not always been the best but it’s something he’s improved on recently and he’s seeing the benefits of it.”"


As a side note, I've got a subcription to the Athletic - I really rate their everton coverage. I got a couple of 'free passes' for friends if anyone wants a free month (think you might have to provide card details and it auto-renews so be careful)... drop me a message if you'd like a code (I gain nothing from it).
Over the years been so many good centre backs that weren't muscle boys. I won't even write his name but the Kopites had one who looked like a strong breeze would have him over yet was one of the most effective I've seen. Strength is a mental thing.
 

Always thought of as a good defender comfortable on the ball. His passing is absolutely horrendous though, amount of times we are comfortable in possession and goes to go over the full backs head and doesn't even get close to that. Extremely frustrating.

Had a good spell of about 6 games a year ago and lives off that. Keane, Mina and Godfrey been very good for atleast 80% of games this season
 
Been my favorite player for some time.. thought he had huge potential before going on loan and honestly lived up to my expectations last season.. was superb ..

but I’ll acknowledge, he’s in a really bad space at the moment... not sure what it is. Confidence, time out.. he seems a bit indecisive and unsure. Hope he sorts himself out as he’s a heck of a player when playing at full potential!! Heck of player!
 
Yep, I agree with all of that. Holgate did better last year than I thought he was capable of, I thought he did really well, but only in a relative sense. I think he's a decent player who just isn't ever going to be good enough to be a regular starter for a side with any real ambition. As you say, he's young enough to prove me wrong, but from what I've seen he's just lacking a few too many things. I think people overrate him because he's usually more mobile than whoever he replaces in the backline and so instantly looks better in that regard. Personally i've never really liked the attitude he projects (whether that's his real personality or not I have no idea) but I know others have liked it previously and I think it's a bit unfair to have a go at him for now when thats what he's always been like.

Last season he did well, but again (a bit like I've mentioned about Gordon) he did well in a terrible team. I mean in a lot of ways that shows character and should be applauded, but shining in a terrible team doesn't always mean you automatically become good enough to play well for a great team. Pickford is probably a good example of this as well. Brilliant at Sunderland, where he was facing 8-10 shots every games. He'd let a couple in, save 6 ot 7, the team was shambolic and everyone would be like "chirst this goalkeeper is our best player, what a find he is". Again fine, but whats he like when he has nothing to do for 96 minutes and then has to tip one over the bar and he tips it back into play?

On the age thing I'm a bit conflicted too. I mean defenders can keep getting better post 24. I think of the likes of Jagielka, and Lescott who really improved a lot, and to a degree Keane has. But Jagielka and Lescott had a team built around their strengths and could do the basics much better than Holgate. This might sound odd, but I don't think he thinks like a centre half. I played centre half in my youth "career" and I was constantly aware of what was behind me. It's strange I still do it now is every day life (much to my partners annoyance), you kind of learn to protect your space when people are behind/next to you. He doesn't have that instinct. For that goal the other night, he watches the ball and he's got no idea what the man is doing. He needs to be more side on and so he can at least be aware of Maja. You take your position partially based upon what the striker is doing. Keane for all his faults is very good at this. He's also a lot bigger than Holgate (which won't change).

A bit like Gomez, when it looks good, it will look great, but there is always that "mistake" in him.

There's a wider story here about how we probably build people up a bit much, so when they are knocked down it gets harder to take. I don't think it's laziness, nor do I think the Nyarko or Schneiderlin comparisons are fair. Whatever one thinks of his attitude, there is a technical glitch in his game. He's an ok centre back and if he stays as 3/4th choice, I am happy enough with that. He has improved a lot from 18-24 and deserves credit for that. But he won't even get to a John Stones level, never mind beyond that. If he's our biggest problem in the squad, that's not the worst problem to have.
 
Over the years been so many good centre backs that weren't muscle boys. I won't even write his name but the Kopites had one who looked like a strong breeze would have him over yet was one of the most effective I've seen. Strength is a mental thing.
Lukaku proved bulking up is not always a good thing,
Does my crust in when people say...usually about a younger new player...needs to bulk up a bit for the Prem which is total wham 19 Xs out of 20.
They forget 'The Prem' is, in simple terms, Middle Distance running...you dont see many body builder sprinters in 5000m races...but you see plenty of Vardy shapes sprinting like 'k at the end of them
Too much bulk slows down the fast 'twitch' muscles
Swerve the bulking up.
 

Always thought of as a good defender comfortable on the ball. His passing is absolutely horrendous though, amount of times we are comfortable in possession and goes to go over the full backs head and doesn't even get close to that. Extremely frustrating.

Which is strange cause the thing that made him stand out last season was his excellent passing from defence into midfield. Again, it wasn't an easy game for him to do that with every player having their backs to goal and ducking it everytime a player or even the ball came near them.
 
I don't think the constant switching of positions is helping him. Either Holgate or Godfrey has to be right back for rest of the season and then reasses in the summer. Personally I would put Godfrey at right back and rotate Holgate Mina and Keane in the centre.
 
Lukaku proved bulking up is not always a good thing,
Does my crust in when people say...usually about a younger new player...needs to bulk up a bit for the Prem which is total wham 19 Xs out of 20.
They forget 'The Prem' is, in simple terms, Middle Distance running...you dont see many body builder sprinters in 5000m races...but you see plenty of Vardy shapes sprinting like 'k at the end of them
Too much bulk slows down the fast 'twitch' muscles
Swerve the bulking up.
Tbh, the athletic article didn’t mention anything about bulking up in any great detail for that very reason. A lot of the article talks about doing more isometric work to improve the explosive ability in a jump, acceleration etc, so getting bigger in terms of muscles that activate.
 
Lukaku proved bulking up is not always a good thing,
Does my crust in when people say...usually about a younger new player...needs to bulk up a bit for the Prem which is total wham 19 Xs out of 20.
They forget 'The Prem' is, in simple terms, Middle Distance running...you dont see many body builder sprinters in 5000m races...but you see plenty of Vardy shapes sprinting like 'k at the end of them
Too much bulk slows down the fast 'twitch' muscles
Swerve the bulking up.
Anichibe was a prime example of this,more weights he did the slower he got.
 
hes mid-20s, the 'young players have dips in form' excuse doesnt really apply for me.
hes just out of form since coming back from injury and not playing much at centre back due to the form of mina and keane. dont think its anything to do with age.
And yet it looked like we rinsed City with Stones and yet he's doing well in their current record breaking run. All players can go through dips in form for various reasons. Holgate is still young for a CB who normally get to their best at 26/27.
 

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