martinez -- short term approach?

[bourneblue]

Personally i was very happy when we signed fellaini and even more happy with him now.

If coleman continues to improve and mirallas performs this season i think we are a centre mid and a centre forward away from having a top side....problem is no money.

Then allow the man to blood our youth, as Fergie did at utd to great effect when the chips were down.
"Kids ? You'll win nothing with kids ! "
Now which football pundit infamously said this ?

 

[BoysInBlue]

Im not blaming martinez...im hoping he uses a proactive approach.

He is using a pro-active approach. He's working within the perimeters of his job and what he has available to him.

We & he needs to hit the ground running. Our biggest problem last season was we lacked a goalscoring striker. He's solving that by bringing in a striker he knows inside out, who scored more goals than anyone in our team last season.

Is he Van Persie? No. He's a £5m striker, which is about what we can afford at this point without selling anyone.

If you think £5m is too much, you haven't been paying attention to Crystal Palace buying Dwight Gayle for £6m, or Swansea buying Shelvey for £6m. It's a relative bargain compared to those 2 deals.

 

[griffla]

I think Martinez looks at the big picture. He talked of thinking that your going to be at a club for 100 years and always planning for the future. IMO once he's settled in he'll look to bring young players in and Barkley and others will play more.

 

[bourneblue]

Barkley's ready to start in my opinion and I hope he does,but you can bet your bottom dollar there will be posters on here saying we should have signed (insert any high priced player) from (insert any club like (insert any prem club.
Sad but true.

 

[BoysInBlue]

I'm an old arse, so I remember Kendall in the summer of 1986 selling Lineker and bringing in 33 year old Paul Power, and everyone was like, WTF?

We ended up winning the title and Power was one of the players of the season for us.

Sometimes you just have to trust the manager. Martinez should be starting with a clean slate and with no-one on his back.

 

[bourneblue]

I'm an old arse, so I remember Kendall in the summer of 1986 selling Lineker and bringing in 33 year old Paul Power, and everyone was like, WTF?

We ended up winning the title and Power was one of the players of the season for us.

Sometimes you just have to trust the manager. Martinez should be starting with a clean slate and with no-one on his back.

Good post,we can but hope.
However reading between the lines the Knives are out for Roberto, from a certain section of the Everton fanbase.

 

[Zatara2]

He is using a pro-active approach. He's working within the perimeters of his job and what he has available to him.

We & he needs to hit the ground running. Our biggest problem last season was we lacked a goalscoring striker. He's solving that by bringing in a striker he knows inside out, who scored more goals than anyone in our team last season.

Is he Van Persie? No. He's a £5m striker, which is about what we can afford at this point without selling anyone.

If you think £5m is too much, you haven't been paying attention to Crystal Palace buying Dwight Gayle for £6m, or Swansea buying Shelvey for £6m. It's a relative bargain compared to those 2 deals.

I honestly don't see how spending 5mil on a near 30 year old striker with an average career history is proactive.

I also don't know why people are saying 5mil on a striker....it's not 5mil its also wages for a player who will go downhill and signing fees etc....its a lot of money for us.

Comparing a couple of other deals has no relevance. We can scour the market and compare this to other deals too....

 

[tim cahill]

I honestly don't see how spending 5mil on a near 30 year old striker with an average career history is proactive.

I also don't know why people are saying 5mil on a striker....it's not 5mil its also wages for a player who will go downhill and signing fees etc....its a lot of money for us.

Comparing a couple of other deals has no relevance. We can scour the market and compare this to other deals too....

Kone isn't going to suddenly drop in form as he reaches 30. Most strikers continue until 33/34 before their form drops. If he was with us for 4 years then it's only really £1.25 million a year (+ wages) which isn't bad business, particularly considering the options he'll give us up front.

 

[Christiffa25]

We'd still get money for kone next summer or the following summer if we sold him on.

People are obsessed with the 30yr old tag on here! Obviously you don't ideally want a team/squad full of them but a mix is fine AND needed at the top end of the league.

Utd will start next season with Ferdinand vidic carrick evra gigs RVP all the wrong side of that dreaded number.
Simlar stories for Chelsea, city etc, even arsenal have a few these days...
Villa the other end of the spectrum don't and WILL struggle again. They'd be in the championship now if not for benteka's great season.

 

[Elong]

Benteke will do a Jelavic next season, vault me later

 

[Zatara2]

Kone isn't going to suddenly drop in form as he reaches 30. Most strikers continue until 33/34 before their form drops. If he was with us for 4 years then it's only really £1.25 million a year (+ wages) which isn't bad business, particularly considering the options he'll give us up front.

He's 30 in November mate -- so I hope he doesn't drop in form before then !

He's certainly not going to improve either and 50k rumoured a week = 2.4 mil a year say 4 years = approx. 10mil = 15mil total (as well as signing on and agent fees) to have him 29-33.

So over 15mil GBP for an average forward 29-33 years old.

 

[Elong]

So over 15mil GBP for an average forward 29-33 years old.

Until you show stats that this is above the average price for a player of this age and quality, this mean f all. That could be cheap unless you back it up.

 

[Zatara2]

Until you show stats that this is above the average price for a player of this age and quality, this mean f all. That could be cheap unless you back it up.

It's irrelevant -- the point is the club CANNOT AFFORD to be spending this sort of money on someone like this.

Oh and your benteke / Jelavic comment was tongue in cheek I guess.,..

 

[throughthewindandthedrain]

People will convince themselves that players are like Peter Pan these days and can play on well in to their 30's.

But the fact is the aging players in the squad is a concern.

These are key players who are approaching, or over 30 that have played a huge part in us finishing in the upper reachers of the League for many years now.

The age of the squad was brought up by Moyes a few months back as a priority to address in this and future transfer windows.

I think that's why some fans are bemused and disappointed that it looks like we're adding to that problem rather than addressing it, by seemingly bringing in another couple of 30 year olds with a blatantly obvious limited transfer budget.

We've become a selling club these days and rely heavily on selling good players to generate a transfer pot to re-invest.

Rooney, Lescott, Arteta, Rodwell are just a few that have been sold to pacify the banks, and generate a little spending money.

But what's going to happen if we keep signing 30 year olds and have nobody in the squad that would generate any significant transfer fund?
Currently I can only see 3, possibly 4 that could be sold for a significant amount to re-invest.

Baines is one, but he would have to be sold now if he were to generate a "war chest". If he stays another year or two his transfer value will significantly drop due to his age.

Fellaini could be sold for around 20 million which could enable you to buy two or three good players.

Mirallas could be sold for a big profit on the 5-6 million paid.

And Ross Barkley is the other who could be sold for big money.

Other than those, everyone else in the squad couldn't be sold for anything near enough to rebuild an ageing squad.

It's sad that we find ourselves having to work this way but unfortunately that's the reality.
.Kenwright and the board are not suddenly going to back the manager with big funds without selling.

That's why it's vital that with any limited funds we do get, that we spend it on young unpolished gems like the 23 year old Arteta we signed all those years ago, to either grow in to the team and play an important role in keeping us competitive, and then inevitably sold on to generate more funds to repeat the cycle.

Nobody wants to see good players sold, but that's the business plan we've followed for a good few years now but the concern is, if we don't have any young, valuable assets left to sell, the manager is going to have to rely on Kenwright finding the funds from somewhere for future transfers...

Lescott and Rooney were sold because it would have caused problems within the squad to keep them, Arteta and Rodwell were sold because it was the right time and other teams seemed to value them more than we did. These type of situations go on at all clubs. We aren't really a selling club if we look at comparisons with others, in fact we tend to hold on and reward players doing well. Players who didn't provide resale value...Giggs, Scholes. Gerrard...what they did provide was to be a major part of a settled side, entertainment for their fans, a commercial outlet and assistance to younger players coming in. Really think this prototype we are supposed to be worried about with having a squad in their prime is not coming from normal football situations

 

[Zatara2]

We'd still get money for kone next summer or the following summer if we sold him on.

People are obsessed with the 30yr old tag on here! Obviously you don't ideally want a team/squad full of them but a mix is fine AND needed at the top end of the league.

Utd will start next season with Ferdinand vidic carrick evra gigs RVP all the wrong side of that dreaded number.
Simlar stories for Chelsea, city etc, even arsenal have a few these days...
Villa the other end of the spectrum don't and WILL struggle again. They'd be in the championship now if not for benteka's great season.

UTD/ Chelsea and Arsenal are cash rich.......Villa are in a good position, making money whilst holding young assets. Good business model....we should be in the middle and are far from it.

If we sold Kone on at 30/31 or 31/32 (next 2 seasons) how much would he go for ? under 5mil so its an immediate loss for us.