2017/18 Kieran Dowell

[jceverton]

So when he said he was happy to go on loan before this summer it is invalid because he 'took his chance' this summer.

And when he said he was happy to be on loan this summer it is invalid because 'what else could you expect him to say'?

He was despearate to go out on loan only because Koeman wasn't going to give him a chance. He wasted last year in U23. If he's going to develop he needs to play first team football. Ideally that would be at Everton but no point hanging around if the manager isn't going to give you a chance.

 

[Baines' left foot]

Dowell is like a round peg for a round hole.

 

[TonyT65]

Starts tonight

 

[johnnydawg68]

Quotes from Kieran Dowell himself (in January):
“I’d love to go out on loan,” the 19-year-old said.
“Speaking to the first-team players, the majority of them have come from a lower team, for example Bainsey has come to Everton from Wigan and you see Ross going on loan and Seamus as well.
“They have all recommended that it’s the right thing to do if you’re not in the first-team at the moment.
“I think it would make me a man, so to speak. If I went on loan I think I’d realise that it matters a lot more because people are playing to play their mortgages and bonuses so you have to be counted on.”
He added: “Seeing Tom doing stuff like he did at the weekend, and Mase (Mason Holgate) as well, it shows that there is a path there for you and the club want you to come through.
“It definitely makes you hungrier to get there and do the same.

But OK...

Not to be argumentative, but that was in January. Which technically is "before the summer", but in reality bears no relation to August. He wanted to go on loan last season.

The lad (rightly in my opinion) feels he did enough to deserve the Davies option this season. RK didn't. So ok. But let's not re-write the story that Dowell was happy to go on loan this season. Enough posters with enough inside knowledge say that's not the case.

You may not be arsed with what the lad wants and that's totally fair. Not going to argue that point. But the above quote is misleading in my opinion.

 

[Goat]

Not to be argumentative, but that was in January. Which technically is "before the summer", but in reality bears no relation to August. He wanted to go on loan last season.

The lad (rightly in my opinion) feels he did enough to deserve the Davies option this season. RK didn't. So ok. But let's not re-write the story that Dowell was happy to go on loan this season. Enough posters with enough inside knowledge say that's not the case.

You may not be arsed with what the lad wants and that's totally fair. Not going to argue that point. But the above quote is misleading in my opinion.

So you would rather we believed jarg ITKs than quotes from the player himself?

Crikey.

 

[johnnydawg68]

So you would rather we believed jarg ITKs than quotes from the player himself?

Crikey.

If he'd made the comment last week it would be different.

 

[Eggs]

...suggest folk monitor the 'young EFC players on loan' thread, it really does provide a valuable insight to how these lads are doing, including fans views.

 

[davek]

...suggest folk monitor the 'young EFC players on loan' thread, it really does provide a valuable insight to how these lads are doing, including fans views.

Yes, but reading it the critique seems to be all around his consistency, when:

A/ no other Everton first team player is expected (or at least delivers) a great level of performance each game
B/ only a handful of players in the PL in his position are ever going to do it week in week out
C/ you dont consistently deliver good performances in the PL by playing in the Championship

The whole premise of judging Dowell on delivering 9/10 performances is flawed.

My advice is get him back and play him in a division where a talent like his belongs; be patient and expect good games followed by anonymous games; use as many players with top class movement around him as you possibly can to see him shine.

 

[Lanolin]

If he'd made the comment last week it would be different.

So in January he said he wanted to go on loan, and last week he said he was delighted to go out on loan, but we should all believe that he's absolutely seething because a faceless poster on the internet said so? Seems fair.

 

[atrottel]

Yes, but reading it the critique seems to be all around his consistency, when:

A/ no other Everton first team player is expected (or at least delivers) a great level of performance each game
B/ only a handful of players in the PL in his position are ever going to do it week in week out
C/ you dont consistently deliver good performances in the PL by playing in the Championship

The whole premise of judging Dowell on delivering 9/10 performances is flawed.

My advice is get him back and play him in a division where a talent like his belongs; be patient and expect good games followed by anonymous games; use as many players with top class movement around him as you possibly can to see him shine.

Since the thread is being discussed in here, part of the point of it each season is to see what other teams and their fans think of our loan players (whoever they are), so the reported 'critique' (such as it is, after only two matches) - as opposed to our own comments as EFC fans - is from a Championship level in the case of the current loan players.

 

[davek]

Since the thread is being discussed in here, part of the point of it each season is to see what other teams and their fans think of our loan players (whoever they are), so the reported 'critique' (such as it is, after only two matches) - as opposed to our own comments as EFC fans - is from a Championship level in the case of the current loan players.

It matters not though if it comes from outsiders or our fans. Certainly not in the case of a player of Dowell's talents.

How can we know if he's being allowed to unfold his talents and go through his repertoire if the players around him are not of the standard that can take advantage of them? He'll be seeing possibilities on the ball that cant be actualised because the level of forward movement in that league will be much poorer than in the PL. He'll basically have to be judged each week on how many slalom runs and shots at goal he has because so few of his team mates will be on his wavelength.

 

[willo30]

Yes, but reading it the critique seems to be all around his consistency, when:

A/ no other Everton first team player is expected (or at least delivers) a great level of performance each game
B/ only a handful of players in the PL in his position are ever going to do it week in week out
C/ you dont consistently deliver good performances in the PL by playing in the Championship

The whole premise of judging Dowell on delivering 9/10 performances is flawed.

My advice is get him back and play him in a division where a talent like his belongs; be patient and expect good games followed by anonymous games; use as many players with top class movement around him as you possibly can to see him shine.

And that's the problem right there. We don't have any.

 

[davek]

And that's the problem right there. We don't have any.

It just compounds the problem if you then send a player like him out on loan, because that encourages the signing of players who aren't looking to exploit space and rely on athleticism more than anything else.

 

[DanB90]

For a player of his age and this stage of development, it would be better (for him and us) to have him starting games week in, week out.
Rather than the odd cup game and minutes off the bench here and there.

 

[blueloon]

It matters not though if it comes from outsiders or our fans. Certainly not in the case of a player of Dowell's talents.

How can we know if he's being allowed to unfold his talents and go through his repertoire if the players around him are not of the standard that can take advantage of them? He'll be seeing possibilities on the ball that cant be actualised because the level of forward movement in that league will be much poorer than in the PL. He'll basically have to be judged each week on how many slalom runs and shots at goal he has because so few of his team mates will be on his wavelength.

Equally the standard of the opposition will allow him to express himself more by giving that wee bit of extra space and time. Dowell is not about 40 yard passes which come to nothing because nobody spots the space and runs into it, he's more about subtle flicks and passes which open up a defence within 10-20 yards ahead . He'll adapt well to how other players move and even their lack of speed at times. I think we'll see his full range of abilities at Forest from the very good bits to the bits that make you frown . He'll need to do some adapting but I'm very confident he'll be a success at Forest and he'll return a better player.