Keeper necessity

[Zaschrona]

With a supposed £100mil+ to spend you would be happy with Mandanda or Begovic as 1st choice and Krul as a backup going into the season?

I'd be getting my pitchfork out

Yes, Mandanda and Begovic are both quality keepers. Massive upgrade over what we have right now.

I rate everything in football to 5 tiers from EFC point of view.

Tier 1 - superstars
Tier 2 - quality
Tier 3 - solid
Tier 4 - decent
Tier 5 - not good enough

We are currently something like 3,5 as a team. Joel is maybe 4. Howard was 4,5. Krul is 3. Begovic and Mandanda are 2,5. Leno is probably 2 and probably an unrealistic target.

I will way rather have 2,5+3 than 2+4, especially if we could have 2,5+3 right now, just before the start of pre-season. I don't want us trying to buy new top goalkeeper all summer long and then have to buy only a tier 3 goalkeepr as our new number one because all tier 2,5 goalkeepers will be then gone from the market...

Plus Mandanda and Krul would as a pair cost maybe 5m? Leno would cost probably something like 20m. Already a massive upgrade, plus Leno may be an unrealistic target, he may wait for a bigger club knocking on his door. We should not suddenly behave like crazy millionaires. We need to spend money on other parts of our squad too, we have massive holes in our squad, especially all over our midfield. We should spend money in a clever way and upgrade slowly our squad over the years. More top quality players will be willing to come here if we improve as a squad.

 

[Goat]

Zatman, knocking back an International class keeper who has won loads of awards playing top flight football and picking an unproven 22 year old who has knocked around the lower leagues his whole career.

Hes the Zatman.

 

[chazzle_dazzle]

plus Leno may be an unrealistic target, he may wait for a bigger club knocking on his door. We should not suddenly behave like crazy millionaires. .

If you don't ask you don't get, suppose you could say we acted like "Crazy millionaires" by paying £5m for a manager which most of the footballing world thought we wouldn't get. Perceptions of the club, the vision and where we are going are going to change a hell of a lot of peoples opinions, seemingly a lot of our own fans too.

The goalie position is absolutely critical, we spend whatever it takes to get the best we possibly can. If its Krull, Begovic or Mandanda (who i don't mind think he would be solid but think there is better out there if we tried) are the best we can get I will be worried.

 

[Zatara]

Yes, Mandanda and Begovic are both quality keepers. Massive upgrade over what we have right now.

I rate everything in football to 5 tiers from EFC point of view.

Tier 1 - superstars
Tier 2 - quality
Tier 3 - solid
Tier 4 - decent
Tier 5 - not good enough

We are currently something like 3,5 as a team. Joel is maybe 4. Howard was 4,5. Krul is 3. Begovic and Mandanda are 2,5. Leno is probably 2 and probably an unrealistic target.

I will way rather have 2,5+3 than 2+4, especially if we could have 2,5+3 right now, just before the start of pre-season. I don't want us trying to buy new top goalkeeper all summer long and then have to buy only a tier 3 goalkeepr as our new number one because all tier 2,5 goalkeepers will be then gone from the market...

Plus Mandanda and Krul would as a pair cost maybe 5m? Leno would cost probably something like 20m. Already a massive upgrade, plus Leno may be an unrealistic target, he may wait for a bigger club knocking on his door. We should not suddenly behave like crazy millionaires. We need to spend money on other parts of our squad too, we have massive holes in our squad, especially all over our midfield. We should spend money in a clever way and upgrade slowly our squad over the years. More top quality players will be willing to come here if we improve as a squad.

Anything is an upgrade on Howard.

Those keepers are no better (or barely) better than Robles.

If we signed them and finished bottom half then would you be surprised as signing a keeper worse than half the league will mean leaking goals like last season.

 

[Zatara]

Zatman, knocking back an International class keeper who has won loads of awards playing top flight football and picking an unproven 22 year old who has knocked around the lower leagues his whole career.

Hes the Zatman.

What on earth are you referring to?

 

[Zatara]

If you don't ask you don't get, suppose you could say we acted like "Crazy millionaires" by paying £5m for a manager which most of the footballing world thought we wouldn't get. Perceptions of the club, the vision and where we are going are going to change a hell of a lot of peoples opinions, seemingly a lot of our own fans too.

The goalie position is absolutely critical, we spend whatever it takes to get the best we possibly can. If its Krull, Begovic or Mandanda (who i don't mind think he would be solid but think there is better out there if we tried) are the best we can get I will be worried.

It would be pre-Moshiri basically and even then weve had better keepers.

 

[Zaschrona]

If you don't ask you don't get, suppose you could say we acted like "Crazy millionaires" by paying £5m for a manager which most of the footballing world thought we wouldn't get. Perceptions of the club, the vision and where we are going are going to change a hell of a lot of peoples opinions, seemingly a lot of our own fans too.

The goalie position is absolutely critical, we spend whatever it takes to get the best we possibly can. If its Krull, Begovic or Mandanda (who i don't mind think he would be solid but think there is better out there if we tried) are the best we can get I will be worried.

Sorry, but it is a little bit deluded thinking that all top players are going to be suddenly interested in coming here. We can ask for Leno for sure, but as he is probably the biggest talent possibly on the market, then it is really unlikely that player will come here. He will likely wait for for a bigger club. And we don't hear all the stuff our club is doing. We need to ask, try hard fast, and if the deal seems not too realistic, we need to move on to a 2nd option. Immediately. We need a new goalkeeper and if we don't act fast, then players like Mandanda are going to other clubs... and we then may be stuck with even a worse player than Mandanda. I think we can possibly get a better goalkeeper, but that deal may not be possible right now, we are growing up from a low base. We can buy upgrade from good quality to top quality later. But we need right now at least that good quality. Only decent quality would be a disaster this summer...

 

[brieverton]

If you don't ask you don't get, suppose you could say we acted like "Crazy millionaires" by paying £5m for a manager which most of the footballing world thought we wouldn't get. Perceptions of the club, the vision and where we are going are going to change a hell of a lot of peoples opinions, seemingly a lot of our own fans too.

The goalie position is absolutely critical, we spend whatever it takes to get the best we possibly can. If its Krull, Begovic or Mandanda (who i don't mind think he would be solid but think there is better out there if we tried) are the best we can get I will be worried.

Agree with this, whilst I am probably a fuddy-duddy for wanting value for money, the GK position is one I would be happy to pay a premium for to ensure we recruit the best available, either from these shores or elsewhere.

It is beyond critical that we aim high for this position.

 

[Zaschrona]

Anything is an upgrade on Howard.

Those keepers are no better (or barely) better than Robles.

If we signed them and finished bottom half then would you be surprised as signing a keeper worse than half the league will mean leaking goals like last season.

Barely better than Robles? Sorry but you are probably massively overrating Robles. Mandanda should be a good PL goalkeeper. A starter. At least the same quality as keepers like Adrian or Forster. Robles is barely a decent backup option.

Better to keep our targets a little bit more realistic.

 

[Zaschrona]

Agree with this, whilst I am probably a fuddy-duddy for wanting value for money, the GK position is one I would be happy to pay a premium for to ensure we recruit the best available, either from these shores or elsewhere.

It is beyond critical that we aim high for this position.

Butland for 30m? Or Mandanda for free and Mata for 30m?

 

[Raging Clue Right Now]

I just wanted to address the GK situation. For those of us lucky enough to see Southall in his prime i suppose we consider that to be the level of keeper we want. Even after he had put on alot of weight he was immense during 95 and 96 seasons when we won the FA cup and had Kanchelskis and other top players. Without him i doubt we would have picked up half the trophies we did.

The next level down would be Martyn who we could have had many years earlier but for Johnson messing up the signing. He was an immense keeper and probably saved Moyes bacon as we would probably have been relegated without him.

We had a few keepers of course that potentially seemed like they 'may' be good for us like Myhre, Ruddy and Turner + highly rated Wright and Simonsen.

This brings me all the way down to "Captain America" Tim Howard. We all know he was decent for us for most of his career but dreadful last season and definitely cost us a lot of points which in the end may have been the different between a happy squad getting results and what happened with him in goal.

When we look at the top sides with Courtois, De Gea, Cech and Lloris its quite clear that to compete at that level we need a Southall or Martyn and not any of the others weve seen in the past 30 odd years

This brings me to the links to Krul, Skekelenburg and Mandanda. None of these are close to having the same quality as pur rivals keepers. Mandanda seems to be a popular choice from some who see hes won awards in France...well, so what?? Is he on the same level as Lloris ? No, hea more of a grobelaar who would be useless in this league.

I have seen alot of posts advocating the above and other signings theyre cheap or have release clauses...so what??

To be the best you need to have the best players and we shouldnt be wasting time here with only Robles on the books...Top keepers who would consider us a step up like Leno, Rico and Butland are out there and its imperative we sign one of them.

Heck, the RS just signed Karius whose going to be top class but not at the level of the above 3. Koeman may need to assess the squad but surely he knows how important a keeper is, i mean he did sign Forster!!!

Please, lets aim for the best in this key position...i dont want the stress of having a sub-standard keeper in goal. I want to enjoy games like when we had Southall and Martyn where i could relax.

I remember Southall in his last few years and still better than anything we've had last term years. 95 FA cup winner medal aside.

 

[Nymzee]

Can't see any CL player coming here unless he's not a guaranteed starter at his club.

 

[Goat]

What on earth are you referring to?

"Mandanda seems to be a popular choice from some who see hes won awards in France...well, so what?? Is he on the same level as Lloris ? No, hea more of a grobelaar who would be useless in this league."

"Its not easy to find one whose not already been scouted, the best bet would be Jordan Pickford but again wouldnt be cheap from Sunderland."

This Zat, just this.

 

[chazzle_dazzle]

Sorry, but it is a little bit deluded thinking that all top players are going to be suddenly interested in coming here. We can ask for Leno for sure, but as he is probably the biggest talent possibly on the market, then it is really unlikely that player will come here. He will likely wait for for a bigger club. And we don't hear all the stuff our club is doing. We need to ask, try hard fast, and if the deal seems not too realistic, we need to move on to a 2nd option. Immediately. We need a new goalkeeper and if we don't act fast, then players like Mandanda are going to other clubs... and we then may be stuck with even a worse player than Mandanda. I think we can possibly get a better goalkeeper, but that deal may not be possible right now, we are growing up from a low base. We can buy upgrade from good quality to top quality later. But we need right now at least that good quality. Only decent quality would be a disaster this summer...

100% agree, we ask and move on the same as we did with the manager situation.

No one is being deluded in thinking the best players will automatically think they will come here now. Leno is the class below the top class and we can try, people might think that about Mata or Sniederlin, but it seems we are after them.

We do have to stop with the plucky Everton living on scraps type of thinking though, not being deluded or anything but thinking like that will leave us exactly where we are. We aren't that anymore, plucky Everton took a manager they wanted that no-one thought we had any right to get.

We go for the best we can and move on quickly down a list of targets.

 

[chazzle_dazzle]

Agree with this, whilst I am probably a fuddy-duddy for wanting value for money, the GK position is one I would be happy to pay a premium for to ensure we recruit the best available, either from these shores or elsewhere.

It is beyond critical that we aim high for this position.

Quality in that position is the difference between winning them games we where up in and ended up drawing, the amount of games we draw could change with a quality keeper