January Transfer Window 2023

[nsno-chris]

The one saving grace we have this month is that after West Ham on the 21st we don't have any more league games.

It's three games to get through, but only one of them - tomorrow - should come without any additions (and IMO we should have done more, even though yes, they are very much trying and wanted to have something lined up, it ain't good enough).

Lampard for now has to find a way to get 4 points at least from the next two, ideally 6 of course.

It feels like this time last year, when we had games v Norwich, Villa, Newcastle and Leeds - all teams around us. Had we taken about 7 points from them I think we'd have been well clear of any danger. We ended up with 3.

If we take 6-7 points from the next 3 games, 2 of which come against our relegation rivals, we can lift ourselves into a decent position. But they have to, have to help with signings.

I’m still fuming that that Thelwell actually signed off on signing McNeil when we’re desperate for goals and dynamism.

If that has hampered any progress in January then I hope he gets canned

 

[BlueToff]

I’m still fuming that that Thelwell actually signed off on signing McNeil when we’re desperate for goals and dynamism.

If that has hampered any progress in January then I hope he gets canned

Lampard signed off on him too, and Maupay.

The latter I can forgive them for in the sense that I really think Lampard thought he could get the team playing how he wants them to, maybe naively, when it comes to getting the ball on the deck around the box and that would suit Maupay's strengths. But he hasn't been able to do it, for a variety of reasons.

McNeil there's no real excuse for, from anyone involved, and they were both involved in that signing.

 

[Brett Angell Delight]

The one saving grace we have this month is that after West Ham on the 21st we don't have any more league games.

It's three games to get through, but only one of them - tomorrow - should come without any additions (and IMO we should have done more, even though yes, they are very much trying and wanted to have something lined up, it ain't good enough).

Lampard for now has to find a way to get 4 points at least from the next two, ideally 6 of course.

It feels like this time last year, when we had games v Norwich, Villa, Newcastle and Leeds - all teams around us. Had we taken about 7 points from them I think we'd have been well clear of any danger. We ended up with 3.

If we take 6-7 points from the next 3 games, 2 of which come against our relegation rivals, we can lift ourselves into a decent position. But they have to, have to help with signings.

I don’t disagree with this at all mate, but this is where I always struggle with these threads every summer/Jan. We can stamp our feet all we want and scream into the void that we can’t get the results we need without reinforcements, but that doesn’t get us out of the abysmal negotiating position we’ve worked our way into over the years.

We aren’t entitled to new players just because we need them. We can’t convince other clubs that our 10p is worth £50m and we can’t convince players that we’re a better home for them than teams that aren’t an absolute circus.

It looks/sounds very likely that it’s Simms and a loan or two and that’s it. Of course it’d be great if we woke up tomorrow and all the business we CAN do, we’ve done, but again it’s not happening is it? We’ve got to ascertain the exact slimness of our pickings, then go to work trying to work out which will be the least terrible options and THEN work out how to get them in. It’s not (just) because we’re Everton and everyone else does better business than us, it’s that we’ve done horrendous business so consistently (and sometimes very early, tbf) over the years that the constraints on us now make it nigh on impossible to do anything in the first couple of weeks of the window.

Of course, when that’s the case we have to fall back on our manager and coaches getting what they can out of what we have and THAT is where my worries lie at the moment.

 

[nsno-chris]

Lampard signed off on him too, and Maupay.

The latter I can forgive them for in the sense that I really think Lampard thought he could get the team playing how he wants them to, maybe naively, when it comes to getting the ball on the deck around the box and that would suit Maupay's strengths. But he hasn't been able to do it, for a variety of reasons.

McNeil there's no real excuse for, from anyone involved, and they were both involved in that signing.

Almost convinced it was hush money to Burnley. This my QAnon and I’m not letting it go

 

[TheBigIguana]

Not really...

We had MGW all but done, he was ready to board a plane to the US. Deal fell through due to payment structure. You might remember Gordon put something on his Instagram story of the two with a blue heart around that time? Well yeah, that was why. But we just never could then match what Wolves wanted as the new structure.

Chelsea's move for Gordon was much later in the window and they never offered what we wanted (which I agree with you btw was too much but it was our valuation).

Everton went for MGW again on the same terms Forest agreed with Wolves - I think that was just a punt though in all honesty and was probably based on Chelsea meeting the valuation of Gordon, which they ultimately never did. There really was a point mid-August where it looked like Chelsea were going to do it, apparently, and that would have been around the time MGW went to Forest.

Do you know what our valuation of Gordon was?

I'm just curious how badly we botched this because unless they couldn't get to 30m we screwed up.

 

[nsno-chris]

I don’t disagree with this at all mate, but this is where I always struggle with these threads every summer/Jan. We can stamp our feet all we want and scream into the void that we can’t get the results we need without reinforcements, but that doesn’t get us out of the abysmal negotiating position we’ve worked our way into over the years.

We aren’t entitled to new players just because we need them. We can’t convince other clubs that our 10p is worth £50m and we can’t convince players that we’re a better home for them than teams that aren’t an absolute circus.

It looks/sounds very likely that it’s Simms and a loan or two and that’s it. Of course it’d be great if we woke up tomorrow and all the business we CAN do, we’ve done, but again it’s not happening is it? We’ve got to ascertain the exact slimness of our pickings, then go to work trying to work out which will be the least terrible options and THEN work out how to get them in. It’s not (just) because we’re Everton and everyone else does better business than us, it’s that we’ve done horrendous business so consistently (and sometimes very early, tbf) over the years that the constraints on us now make it nigh on impossible to do anything in the first couple of weeks of the window.

Of course, when that’s the case we have to fall back on our manager and coaches getting what they can out of what we have and THAT is where my worries lie at the moment.

I find it hard to imagine that a director of football has not spent the past 9 months using every resource at his disposal, using every contact in every corner of the world to find a dynamic, fast threatening winger.

It’s mind blowing to me, how someone in a senior position can watch us struggle last year, sell our top scorer, continue to watch us struggle and not think “this is my priority over everything else”.

 

[Nyhus]

I'm not talking about money and players. I'm talking about tactics. You don't have to have world class players to put together a team that can both play up the pitch a little and not concede loads of goals. You don't have to have world class players to set up a team that can create chances without causing itself to be wide open. Not all of his issues can be solved with throwing money around.

I agree, thats the confusing part. Why is he not at the very least trying to play attacking tactics who suits our attackers strenghts, re the Maupay discussion on the previous page. You dont need to throw every player into attack and leave your team open for counters to do better than we have, all you need is to play a game fitting the players available. This group will never score tons of goals, but they can do better than we're seeing. To help remedy our defensive woves, he did change tactics and get players in who fitted what we needed for them to, at the very least, work better than last season. I dont buy that he and Clement together wouldnt be able to work out something better than what we're being served up, as Clement is an okay manager in his own rights having learnt from the best.

The part of our attacking issues we can fix by spending, is getting players in who fits how Frank sets us up to attack now, ie someone capable of doing the target man role who doesnt break down every second game. Im certain that would improve us, even if we still would have other issues like lack of creativity to deal with. Honestly tho, as you say, our attack stinks, but its not _this_ bad. Again, re the Maupay discussion. Someone doesnt go from 3 seasons of 1 in 3 goals/assists to 1 in 12 unless theyre being used poorly. I dont buy that Lampard doesnt know that too, thus the confusion.

I think this might be a situation where he is hesitant to even try because of how badly we got mauled when he did so last season, more than him being incapable of seeing the issues at hand. Sadly, sometimes you need to crack a few eggs to make an omlette, and he shouldve done that earlier this season insted of just focusing on the defensive part of our game. Both are needed to win points and he and his team needs to figure this out soon, or hes going the same way Koeman and fat Benny did.

 

[BlueToff]

I don’t disagree with this at all mate, but this is where I always struggle with these threads every summer/Jan. We can stamp our feet all we want and scream into the void that we can’t get the results we need without reinforcements, but that doesn’t get us out of the abysmal negotiating position we’ve worked our way into over the years.

We aren’t entitled to new players just because we need them. We can’t convince other clubs that our 10p is worth £50m and we can’t convince players that we’re a better home for them than teams that aren’t an absolute circus.

It looks/sounds very likely that it’s Simms and a loan or two and that’s it. Of course it’d be great if we woke up tomorrow and all the business we CAN do, we’ve done, but again it’s not happening is it? We’ve got to ascertain the exact slimness of our pickings, then go to work trying to work out which will be the least terrible options and THEN work out how to get them in. It’s not (just) because we’re Everton and everyone else does better business than us, it’s that we’ve done horrendous business so consistently (and sometimes very early, tbf) over the years that the constraints on us now make it nigh on impossible to do anything in the first couple of weeks of the window.

Of course, when that’s the case we have to fall back on our manager and coaches getting what they can out of what we have and THAT is where my worries lie at the moment.

Oh I'm well aware. I'm also well aware Everton are trying and have indeed already tried. They really want Elanga. Why they are so dead set on him - or at least were - I don't know; maybe they thought they could get that deal tied up early in the window with United having been so keen on Gakpo (despite what Ten Hag said, which is nonsense, cause Utd really wanted him). It's all ifs and buts and none of us know for sure of course.

But at the same time we knew we needed a striker on August 1st when Dom got injured. We're now Jan 3rd - Dom has played 7 games and the striker we did sign in August (at the very end of it) means an entirely different approach any time we have to switch them in and out.

We have known what we needed for months so it's ultimately part of Thelwell's job to have options ready to go. The dossers above him are included too of course.

They also made their lives harder in the summer by signing, frankly, crap in McNeil and when it comes to Maupay a player whose face just doesn't fit the system. That's self-inflicted, again.

 

[BlueToff]

Do you know what our valuation of Gordon was?

I'm just curious how badly we botched this because unless they couldn't get to 30m we screwed up.

Well the reports that Chelsea were willing to to £60m were legit, or i believe based on a conversation with a certain journalist I had last month, are legit. Everton were ready for that and it looked like Chelsea were gonna pay it.

Different people have said different things above the valuation, but the person I spoke to last month said the agents were working on the basis of a £40m down payment and rest in instalments. The key was just that down payment, but Chelsea didn't offer it in the end.

They tried again final few days - think that was public knowledge, I certainly remember seeing it, but we told them to do one. Lampard said as much after one of the games in late August. Don't know how much of course. Might have been below the valuation again. But between those Forest and Brentford matches it looked like it was getting done.

EDIT: We can cry foul about it like and bemoan it now but, Everton needed cash. They got Spurs to cough up most of that £50m for Richarlison up front, that eased our P&L concerns last financial year of course. If they'd got £40m for Gordon up front, and the rest in add ons, we'd have been covered financially for this year. We're skint and it's our own doing but on the flip side we're in the same position now when it comes to buying players, so we did it to a club further up the food chain. Ultimately if clubs knew we had £40m cash on the hip, too, then there'd have been no small down payments for us. What is frustrating is that clubs abroad are more willing to accept favourable terms - look at the Onana deal - yet we stuck to home soil.

 

[TheBigIguana]

Well the reports that Chelsea were willing to to £60m were legit, or i believe based on a conversation with a certain journalist I had last month, are legit. Everton were ready for that and it looked like Chelsea were gonna pay it.

Different people have said different things above the valuation, but the person I spoke to last month said the agents were working on the basis of a £40m down payment and rest in instalments. The key was just that down payment, but Chelsea didn't offer it in the end.

They tried again final few days - think that was public knowledge, I certainly remember seeing it, but we told them to do one. Lampard said as much after one of the games in late August. Don't know how much of course. Might have been below the valuation again. But between those Forest and Brentford matches it looked like it was getting done.

Just moronic unfortunately. I want Gordon to succeed but you can't gamble like that on a player who had shown little to suggest he'd ever reach that level.

 

[Brett Angell Delight]

I find it hard to imagine that a director of football has not spent the past 9 months using every resource at his disposal, using every contact in every corner of the world to find a dynamic, fast threatening winger.

It’s mind blowing to me, how someone in a senior position can watch us struggle last year, sell our top scorer, continue to watch us struggle and not think “this is my priority over everything else”.

I’d like to think so too mate, but finding one and getting one in are so vastly different in our current predicament.

It almost certainly has to be a loan, which rules out a massive chunk of this hypothetical list. Teams sending players out on loan will likely want to secure a replacement, which at the very least slows things down. Even if not, our enforced penny pinching will delay matters to some extent. If we happen upon a unicorn of a player who could very well be super exciting and help turn our fortunes, I’d hope we spend a bit of time negotiation an option on him, also.

When (spending) money was no object we had a clueless biff with his dusty old black book, and now we have what could hypothetically be a more organised DoF we’re super restricted in what we can spend. Just Everton, innit?

 

[Brett Angell Delight]

Oh I'm well aware. I'm also well aware Everton are trying and have indeed already tried. They really want Elanga. Why they are so dead set on him - or at least were - I don't know; maybe they thought they could get that deal tied up early in the window with United having been so keen on Gakpo (despite what Ten Hag said, which is nonsense, cause Utd really wanted him). It's all ifs and buts and none of us know for sure of course.

But at the same time we knew we needed a striker on August 1st when Dom got injured. We're now Jan 3rd - Dom has played 7 games and the striker we did sign in August (at the very end of it) means an entirely different approach any time we have to switch them in and out.

We have known what we needed for months so it's ultimately part of Thelwell's job to have options ready to go. The dossers above him are included too of course.

They also made their lives harder in the summer by signing, frankly, crap in McNeil and when it comes to Maupay a player whose face just doesn't fit the system. That's self-inflicted, again.

The Simms situation says volumes about how dire our situation is re spending power. Elanga probably just seemed the most low hanging fruit in terms of profile we wanted vs what we perceive to be available, and who we can get in quickly (work permit, relocation, etc). As always though I’m sure we’ll suffer from lashing out eggs in that one basket.

I honestly think there’s a world/system in which McNeil and Maupay would be absolutely fine, albeit not amazing for us. It’s just flabbergasting how we’ve signed them and then made absolutely no attempt to accommodate them whatsoever.

 

[nsno-chris]

I’d like to think so too mate, but finding one and getting one in are so vastly different in our current predicament.

It almost certainly has to be a loan, which rules out a massive chunk of this hypothetical list. Teams sending players out on loan will likely want to secure a replacement, which at the very least slows things down. Even if not, our enforced penny pinching will delay matters to some extent. If we happen upon a unicorn of a player who could very well be super exciting and help turn our fortunes, I’d hope we spend a bit of time negotiation an option on him, also.

When (spending) money was no object we had a clueless biff with his dusty old black book, and now we have what could hypothetically be a more organised DoF we’re super restricted in what we can spend. Just Everton, innit?

It is, no structure or planning whatsoever.

No replacement for Richy and no replacement for Dom, just random players brought into fill the squad.

It’d be nice if we had an actual plan in place; like a feeder club; identify talent in Africa or South America; buy them, bang them out to get some first team experience and then either bring them through or sell them for cash

 

[wm02]

Not really...

We had MGW all but done, he was ready to board a plane to the US. Deal fell through due to payment structure. You might remember Gordon put something on his Instagram story of the two with a blue heart around that time? Well yeah, that was why. But we just never could then match what Wolves wanted as the new structure.

Chelsea's move for Gordon was much later in the window and they never offered what we wanted (which I agree with you btw was too much but it was our valuation).

Everton went for MGW again on the same terms Forest agreed with Wolves - I think that was just a punt though in all honesty and was probably based on Chelsea meeting the valuation of Gordon, which they ultimately never did. There really was a point mid-August where it looked like Chelsea were going to do it, apparently, and that would have been around the time MGW went to Forest.

That makes sense.
When we played Forest at Goodison, there were some videos showing a very cordial interaction between MGW and Lampard

 

[BlueToff]

That makes sense.
When we played Forest at Goodison, there were some videos showing a very cordial interaction between MGW and Lampard

It was close mate, I knew that at the time - but didn't know how close. Like MGW ready to go to the airport close. I learned a fair few things in Qatar from speaking to people who definitely did know more than me on those things!

These things happen, sure there's tons of similar stories. End of the day players are professional and they simply get on with their lives.