Initial 10, then reduced to 6 + 2 Point Deductions

[efcfanwirral]

No he didn’t. He said clubs can’t sue each other. He said 5 clubs will seek compensation from the Pl.

Yeah thankfully Forest being charged means this talk of us being sued to bankruptcy has gone away, as imagine how complicated it'd be if teams got charged every season

 

[mikel_88]

Having skimmed the report I think Forest will get a deduction of 3 or at the most 4. Think our deduction will depend on the amount & reasons we are over again with 8 being the max.

Even tho forest could be higher is what i have seen otherw say

 

[Walken]

I must have missed the bit when City were found guilty. The amount of boiled piss when we get found innocent will be enough to drown merseyside.

You best go post it on a predominantly Merseyside based forum then, get yourself a response.

 

[blueblue]

They never claimed they were innocent they have said all along they were guilty but thought they could argue that the circumstances meant they shouldn't be punished but the commission didn't agree it was like someone getting done for assault and agreeing they did it but saying they were under so much pressure at work and their wife had left them and they'd took some new medication that affected them worse than they thought so the judge should be lenient with them sometimes the judge will agree and sometimes they won't.

My understanding is that certain expenses such as interest on certain loans were not accepted as stadium costs but instead went onto the P & L thereby increasing the loss instead of reducing it. I would like to know if this is the case.

Losses can be made larger or smaller depending on expenses which are allowed or disallowed , we could be guilty based on one interpretation of expenses but maybe innocent if interpreted in a different way.

I would just like to know what the seven issues that were dismissed were all about.

 

[trueblue84]

People might not want to hear it but I think this paragraph hits the nail on the head.

We can debate the rules but they are what they are, Moshiri took the piss, got given very generous leeway with our Covid numbers, continued to take the piss, and even took the piss at the first hearing (“we needed a midfield”).

He was arrogant and reckless and did not believe the PL would do anything serious about it. Maybe there is some politics behind such a harsh sanction but ultimately when the PL needed someone to kick he had his trousers round his ankles and a Kick Me sign on his back.

In that context, given the absolute crap he had to work with, I do believe Rabinowitz got just about the maximum possible out of that appeal.

I get what your saying and agree that moshiri has been an unmitigated failure, but we were signing good commercial deals with usmanov and looked to be very much gaming the system like city and the other "big clubs" were doing. Had the Russian sanctions not happened, we'd by laughing and maybe even looking towards rebuilding the squad.

Just makes a mockery of western values that we can be outraged by some people owning football clubs who have links to a murderous russian lunatic, but are still perfectly happy with murderous middle Eastern lunatics owning football clubs.

 

[MikeH72]

It's not trending in the right direction, you can tell with the maths. The appeal board agreed with the original commission that there was a small mitigating effect from the lower losses in 2021/22. They also agreed with the original commission that this wasn't the case to consider the extent of the 2022/23 losses; the Premier League had tried to introduce them as evidence that the upward trend has stopped. However, it is true that the upward trend has stopped.

Can you back this up with numbers, because you clearly have them to hand and sound very confident?

 

[John BCN]

So called financial expert and ex Man City employee Stefan Borson was on TalkShite before saying he thinks it'll be a maximum of 1-3 points deduction for Forest. Probably wrong considering he said Everton fans should expect no points back and maybe 2 if they're lucky.

It was bizarre. He was all over the place. For Forest he said:

A possible reduction from the standard 6 points, because 2 of their 3 years were in the EFL.

But then an increase because their breach was blatant.

But then maybe a deduction for the Brennan Johnson issue because of the Sheffield Wednesday stadium precedent. Or maybe not. Basically he hasn’t a clue.

For us, he seemed to accept we might get only 1 or 2 points because we have already been punished for 2 of the 3 years (though he said this was not the same as double jeopardy). But we might get an increase as we are trending in the wrong direction.

No mention of his beloved Man City at all, nor any acknowledgement of the fact that his previous prediction that we wouldn't get anything back from the appeal was proved incorrect.

 

[Swagger]

He's had it out for us since the beginning for some reason. Even got quite uppity yesterday when the appeal verdict was announced, as if he was pissed off that we got anything back at all.

Probably because any credibility he had beforehand went out the window having claimed the 10 points penalty would be upheld or Everton might receive a token point or two as a gesture. He was wrong.

Chelsea will be fine as well. They always find mug teams to buy they cast offs - Mount to Utd for £60 million, Hall to Newcastle for £35 million, Havertz to Arsenal for £65 million. Saudi will probably buy a couple more players well past their best for some profit.

 

[Chegsy]

Brentford now cryarsing about something that’s been there all season has made me chuckle, just because they have allowed themselves to be dragged into the scrap by being poo.

I agree with them that the integrity of the league is shot to pieces, but I wasn’t hearing many dissenting voices joining our own when the -10 was taken from us, illegally.

The 14 clubs needed to fight together, and they didn’t and still haven’t.

Another club not realising we have still had 6 points and 2 wins taken from us. Put the points on the board then Brentford and stop relying on other teams getting points taken. They all want an easy ride to safety.

What is this narrative that giving us 4 points back is giving us some kind of unfair advantage?

 

[jazzy]

We raised nine points for the appeal, seven of the nine were dismissed.
The main point where we were successful related to if our dealings with the PL were in good faith or not.

What about the seven that were dismissed ? What were they about ? were they just frivolous points which were summarily dismissed?
If these were genuine arguments then why are we not as a club focusing on these and considering further action ?

I can't help but feel that we were as guilty as sin, knew it but have not admitted it to the fans and are delighted with the result.

I think we just seem to have accepted this decision too easily for a club that genuinely feels it is innocent of the charges.

I think there is a lot of merit in what you say.

Whether we like it or not 2 different commissions with 2 KCs and 4 "experts" have heard all the evidence and representations ( none of us have ) and found that Evertons breach was so serious that points deductions were merited.

Now I appreciate that this is likely to be an unpopular view but for all of those theorizing that Masters , like some Putinesque character has directed these commissions and they are simply carrying out his will and in effect they are his puppets, just take a deep breath and reflect on the fact that that would be a conspiracy akin to the Post Office and Horizon. Really ? What does Masters gain from it?

Or is the reality that Everton , have been " less than frank". Moshiri , the late BK , well they've got form haven't they.

Everton are too accepting of the outcome for there not to be an awful lot more to this that we don't know about.

I suspect , when all the dust settles , that most people will think that the PSR are unfair but that the real root of our bitterness is not that we've been punished but that others haven't been.

 

[matty1878]

f papers just can’t help it can they

“everton get some”

but will be hit again f off every paper journo red, masters, everyone un everton walking
off a cliff thanx

 

[JimmyK]

My understanding is that certain expenses such as interest on certain loans were not accepted as stadium costs but instead went onto the P & L thereby increasing the loss instead of reducing it. I would like to know if this is the case.

Losses can be made larger or smaller depending on expenses which are allowed or disallowed , we could be guilty based on one interpretation of expenses but maybe innocent if interpreted in a different way.

I would just like to know what the seven issues that were dismissed were all about.

It's all the stuff we've been talking about for months. Player X, the Russian sanctions, a misunderstanding of what we were allowed to write off and that. They're all in the published report. Everton have never denied being guilty of the breach they were always arguing that there were mitigating circumstances and that the punishment was too harsh the appeal board agreed with the second bit but not the first.

 

[Billy Dean]

...so what's that 'something'?

I get that we've been charged with another breach, obviously not disputing that, but how has it happened? That's the whole point.

War in Ukraine maybe? That was less of a factor in the first charge as the financial period was ending just as the war was beginning. But it should be much more of a factor for the 22-23 period

 

[Dougie]

Another club not realised we have still had 6 points and 2 wins taken from us. Put the points on the board then Brentford and stop relying on other teams getting points taken. They all want an easy ride to safety.

It’s pathetic. Had the points wrongly took of us since November. They have been on par with Sheffield form for last 14 games or so. The fact they are trying to use the fact we got 4 points back and went level with them, that’s the reason they got battered by a poor form West Ham.

 

[jazzy]

£58m dropped off the £124.5m, and has to have been replaced by something for us to have breached by being over £105m again.

Well we got a hint of that . Stadium cost £800 million to date. The interest payments on that must be extraordinary.

I really hope someone competent has crunched the numbers to make sure that we will be that much more profitable with our shiny new stadium in the future to justify all this upheaval and aggro.