2018/19 Idrissa Gueye

[Stephenlloyd]

i think its a broader equation, Idrissa is a good player but hes far from being world class in my opinion. I think hes a one dimensional player and at his very best hes good at that dimension. Lets be honest though, we have been poor enough and have had trouble conceding goals since hes been with us, personally i think he has peaks and troughs with form, when hes on it hes great, when hes off it he can be powder puff. Lets not fool ourselves into thinking hes some world class gem we have uncovered. He was part of the team that capitulated a 2-0 nil lead to Newcastle less then a month ago in the final stages of the game, you want your midfielders to manage that game, especially senior ones. Hes a good player, not a great one and even in my life span ive seen many superior multi dimensional midfielders play for Everton.

Regardless of my opinion, there is a pragmatism that needs to be adopted. We have seen the difficulty in recruiting and keeping players in their late 20's. Our wage bill is indicative of that. What we have decided as a club is to move to a younger model of investing and developing players. We also know that regression with players who rely on stamina, athleticism and mobility regresses in their early 30's, the age Idrissa will be moving into. yes he might provide a similar service for a couple of years, but it is a position we will have to look at in the short term anyway. So if a club offers you a 300% - 400% profit on you outlay a couple of years early and you have a more then apt replacement you have a faith in to come. There is a tipping point there where it becomes a better decision to sell then keep.

You are advocating loyalty and that is were i think you are being naive, you are saying things like we didnt buy him to sell him, that wildly naive. Footballers are investments and no one has loyalty in football, if hes rubbish we will want him binned, if it suits the club we will sell him in a heart beat if the deal is good enough. he himself agitated for a move in January and could be going for round 2 in the summer.

Im very open minded about it, if its the right fee and we have the right player to replace him, it could very well be a no brainer, but those would be my criteria. im pretty comfortable about it knowing we hold all the cards. Better midfielders then Idrissa have left Everton and we have progressed.

So saying there is zero% of selling him based on all of the above is just wildly naive. I think the point you are making is you really want to keep him, im sure because you like him as a player. But like i said its s broader equation.

Brilliant post.

 

[LocalNative]

Will be incredibly difficult to replace if he leaves.

 

[Pittsburgh Footy]

i think its a broader equation, Idrissa is a good player but hes far from being world class in my opinion. I think hes a one dimensional player and at his very best hes good at that dimension. Lets be honest though, we have been poor enough and have had trouble conceding goals since hes been with us, personally i think he has peaks and troughs with form, when hes on it hes great, when hes off it he can be powder puff. Lets not fool ourselves into thinking hes some world class gem we have uncovered. He was part of the team that capitulated a 2-0 nil lead to Newcastle less then a month ago in the final stages of the game, you want your midfielders to manage that game, especially senior ones. Hes a good player, not a great one and even in my life span ive seen many superior multi dimensional midfielders play for Everton.

Regardless of my opinion, there is a pragmatism that needs to be adopted. We have seen the difficulty in recruiting and keeping players in their late 20's. Our wage bill is indicative of that. What we have decided as a club is to move to a younger model of investing and developing players. We also know that regression with players who rely on stamina, athleticism and mobility regresses in their early 30's, the age Idrissa will be moving into. yes he might provide a similar service for a couple of years, but it is a position we will have to look at in the short term anyway. So if a club offers you a 300% - 400% profit on you outlay a couple of years early and you have a more then apt replacement you have a faith in to come. There is a tipping point there where it becomes a better decision to sell then keep.

You are advocating loyalty and that is were i think you are being naive, you are saying things like we didnt but him to sell him, that wildly naive. Footballers are investment and no one has loyalty in football, if hes rubbish we will want him binned, if it suits the club we will sell him in a heart beat. he himself agitated for a move in January and could be going for round 2 in the summer.

Im very open minded about it, if its the right fee and we have the right player to replace him, it could very well be a no brainer, but those would be criteria. im pretty comfortable about it knowing we hold all the cards. better midfielders then Idrissa have left Everton and we have progressed.

So saying there is zero% of selling him based on all of the above is just wildly naive based on all of the above.I think the point you are making is you really want to keep him, im sure because you like him as a player. But like i said its broader equation.

I should have clarified there's a zero % chance we'd sell him to United. First, I'd be shocked if United wanted him. Second, I'd be even more shocked if they wanted to spend 35 million on him. Thirdly, I find it unlikely we'd sell him to United (although it would need to considered for 35 million, which isn't real).

He's very good at what he does. However, United already have players that do what he does, and if they wanted to upgrade on a player doing what he does, they could literally buy anyone in the world they wanted to.

My other point is that any profit we'd make from him wouldn't easily be reinvested in someone younger, better, cheaper. We'd have no idea what we were getting. And as far as he was concerned, wanting to play Champions League football for PSG where it's fait accompli is one thing, but grinding week after week and being subject to the fickle whims of form and the pressure at United is quite another. I'm not sure that would be his desired place to go.

And yes, I'm a fan of Gana. I believe he is a very important player for us (not completely irreplaceable), but I can recognize his deficiencies. However, I am not in the camp that believes it's as simply as "sell a key member of your best 11" for "some unknown quantity that's better that no one knows about". In effect, we'd be replacing Gana with someone like Gana, who was completely under the radar at Villa. It would be like lightning striking twice.

 

[Neiler]

I should have clarified there's a zero % chance we'd sell him to United. First, I'd be shocked if United wanted him. Second, I'd be even more shocked if they wanted to spend 35 million on him. Thirdly, I find it unlikely we'd sell him to United (although it would need to considered for 35 million, which isn't real).

He's very good at what he does. However, United already have players that do what he does, and if they wanted to upgrade on a player doing what he does, they could literally buy anyone in the world they wanted to.

My other point is that any profit we'd make from him wouldn't easily be reinvested in someone younger, better, cheaper. We'd have no idea what we were getting. And as far as he was concerned, wanting to play Champions League football for PSG where it's fait accompli is one thing, but grinding week after week and being subject to the fickle whims of form and the pressure at United is quite another. I'm not sure that would be his desired place to go.

And yes, I'm a fan of Gana. I believe he is a very important player for us (not completely irreplaceable), but I can recognize his deficiencies. However, I am not in the camp that believes it's as simply as "sell a key member of your best 11" for "some unknown quantity that's better that no one knows about". In effect, we'd be replacing Gana with someone like Gana, who was completely under the radar at Villa. It would be like lightning striking twice.

Utd is the latest rumor and its paper stuff who knows if its true or not, but i dont think it realy matters on the club myself more the deal. On the likely hood who knows, Utd signed Sanchez at the same age as Idrissa, sent a 30 million player the other way and pay him 300k a week, despite having multiple players in those postitions. We've sold arguably better player to Utd in Lukaku and Fellaini and they have regressed, so i dont see it as a huge problem myself. I wouldnt be worried about playing against him, or do i think he would be the missing link for Utd that will propel them to domination.

I think there is every chance we would sell him to Utd, we sold them Rooney, Fellaini and Lukaku, i dont see Idrissa being any exception or bucking that trend, as he is arguably a lower caliber and profile to those others if the deal suited all parties. Its paper guff though and i wouldn't take it literally, but a deal in those realms i would seriously look at regardless of the club even Utd.

If you were to use, the signing other player is bad because its a risk philosophy, you would never sign anyone, thats bananas to be honest. We have a world wide scouting network, a highly regarded DOF a manager who seems to have a clear vision and an eye for a player, whats the point in having those and paying their wages unless you invest and back their judgement.

Like i said its a broader equation. If selling Fellaini meant we were able to invest in Lukaku and others was it a good deal.....Its that broad concept, there are numerous examples in our history and across other clubs.

 

[DanEFC92]

Stop selling our best players to United. Nice one.

 

[CRIMHEAD]

If Gana wasn't any good and so easily replaceable, why would Manchester United not just buy someone like him instead of him?

Look, saying Gana isn't world class is fine. I recognize he's not the most dynamic player with the ball. But he IS absolutely world class when his team does not have possession. In many ways, that's a lot of what Manchester United are lacking because frankly, they aren't all that great at defending. Everton is much better at winning the ball back than Man U. I'm not sure how many here realize how good we are relative to the rest of the league at doing this. Man U doesn't tackle well, they don't get a ton of interceptions - yes, I'm aware that is partially due to have a bit more possession than most teams, but I'm still talking in relative terms - and aren't particularly quick in the center of their defense.

This plays out on the field pretty obviously IMO, as they can get overrun OR they have to employ one too many defensive mids, especially if they hang on to Pogba as he's not a very good defensive player. If Herrera leaves, that leaves Matic and Fred. Matic is past it. Fred...eh...jury is still out.

So if they want to get better at winning the ball back, Gana is an obvious choice. But in no way, shape, or form should we sell Gana to those guys and absolutely not for 30M.

 

[CRIMHEAD]

Utd is the latest rumor and its paper stuff who knows if its true or not, but i dont think it realy matters on the club myself more the deal. On the likely hood who knows, Utd signed Sanchez at the same age as Idrissa, sent a 30 million player the other way and pay him 300k a week, despite having multiple players in those postitions. We've sold arguably better player to Utd in Lukaku and Fellaini and they have regressed, so i dont see it as a huge problem myself. I wouldnt be worried about playing against him, or do i think he would be themissing link for Utd that will propel them to domination.

I think there is every chance we would sell him to Utd, we sold them Rooney, Fellaini and Lukaku, i dont see Idrissa being any exception or bucking that trend of as he is argueably a lower calibre and profile to those others if the deal suited all parites. Its paper guff though and i wouldnt take it literally, but a deal in those realms i would seriously look at regardless of the club even Utd.

If you were to use, the siging another player because its a risk philosphey, you would never sign anyone, thats bananas to be honest. We have a world wide socuting network, a highly regarded DOF a manager who seems to have a clear vision and an eye for a player, whats the point in having those and paying their wages unless you invest and back their judgement.

Like i said its a broader equation. If selling Fellaini meant we were able to invest in Lukaku and others was it a good deal.....Its that broad concept, there are numerous examples in our history and across other clubs.

I think the problem is that we are already looking for a DM/CM, maybe even 2. That would be in addition to Gana. We sell Gana, assuming Schneiderlin, McCarthy, and Besic are shipped out, we need AT LEAST two. 30M ain't going to cut it. I also love Ibrahim Sangare, but he's not coming in here and replicating what Gana does, at least not immediately. It would be an immediate downgrade, but could certainly be an upgrade in the future.

Agreed with your point about selling folks and trusting our DoF, but the price needs to reflect the loss and the value of the player to the club, not just the going rate for the player. If Man U have unlimited funds - and they do - they should be willing to pay a lot more than 30M for him.

 

[Brisan123]

I think its a broader equation, Idrissa is a good player but hes far from being world class in my opinion. I think hes a one dimensional player and at his very best hes good at that dimension. Lets be honest though, we have been poor enough and have had trouble conceding goals since hes been with us, personally i think he has peaks and troughs with form, when hes on it hes great, when hes off it he can be powder puff. Lets not fool ourselves into thinking hes some world class gem we have uncovered. He was part of the team that capitulated a 2-0 nil lead to Newcastle less then a month ago in the final stages of the game, you want your midfielders to manage that game, especially senior ones. Hes a good player, not a great one and even in my life span ive seen many superior multi dimensional midfielders play for Everton.

Regardless of my opinion, there is a pragmatism that needs to be adopted. We have seen the difficulty in recruiting and keeping players in their late 20's. Our wage bill is indicative of that. What we have decided as a club is to move to a younger model of investing and developing players. We also know that regression with players who rely on stamina, athleticism and mobility regresses in their early 30's, the age Idrissa will be moving into. Yes he might provide a similar service for a couple of years, but it is a position we will have to look at in the short term anyway. So if a club offers you a 300% - 400% profit on your outlay a couple of years early and you have a more then apt replacement you have a faith in to come. There is a tipping point there where it becomes a better decision to sell then keep. If he was 22 - 24 i would think a bit differently, but then a transfer fee would be higher as well.

You are advocating loyalty and that is were i think you are being naive, you are saying things like we didnt buy him to sell him, that wildly naive. Footballers are investments and no one has loyalty in football, if hes rubbish we will want him binned, if it suits the club we will sell him in a heart beat if the deal is good enough. he himself agitated for a move in January and could be going for round 2 in the summer.

Im very open minded about it, if its the right fee and we have the right player to replace him, it could very well be a no brainer, but those would be my criteria. im pretty comfortable about it knowing we hold all the cards. Better midfielders then Idrissa have left Everton and we have progressed.

So saying there is zero% of selling him based on all of the above is just wildly naive. I think the point you are making is you really want to keep him, im sure because you like him as a player. But like i said its s broader equation.

I think that the vast majority of any transfer fee will be pure profit could be a crucial factor
The fact that we will possibly lose money on book value on some of our outgoings ( as we did with Klassen ) will be a factor
Books have to be balanced and FPP taken into consideration

 

[Brisan123]

I should have clarified there's a zero % chance we'd sell him to United. First, I'd be shocked if United wanted him. Second, I'd be even more shocked if they wanted to spend 35 million on him. Thirdly, I find it unlikely we'd sell him to United (although it would need to considered for 35 million, which isn't real).

He's very good at what he does. However, United already have players that do what he does, and if they wanted to upgrade on a player doing what he does, they could literally buy anyone in the world they wanted to.

My other point is that any profit we'd make from him wouldn't easily be reinvested in someone younger, better, cheaper. We'd have no idea what we were getting. And as far as he was concerned, wanting to play Champions League football for PSG where it's fait accompli is one thing, but grinding week after week and being subject to the fickle whims of form and the pressure at United is quite another. I'm not sure that would be his desired place to go.

And yes, I'm a fan of Gana. I believe he is a very important player for us (not completely irreplaceable), but I can recognize his deficiencies. However, I am not in the camp that believes it's as simply as "sell a key member of your best 11" for "some unknown quantity that's better that no one knows about". In effect, we'd be replacing Gana with someone like Gana, who was completely under the radar at Villa. It would be like lightning striking twice.

Last summer United did as you said and bought whoever in the world they wanted ,Fred for 50m
That didn’t work out did it
They will be paying a Premium for PL proven

 

[f.t.r.s]

Why would he take a sideways step?
Surely he'd wait for psg?

 

[havrey0123]

He was prevented from leaving in the January transfer window, they won't stop him twice.
The problem is selling him for 30m and it will be hit and miss whether his replacement will be good enough, unless your looking at spending 60m on proven quality

 

[Lelouch]

We should sell if we get anything above 30m tbh he’s an absolute engine but I’d trade a little defensive loss for a more complete box to box player like Doucoure who can do the defensive and score goals while Gana can only do the defensive side which he is a master of. He’s approaching 28/29 and I think we can get a steady younger replacement.

 

[Ruairi77]

Why would he take a sideways step?
Surely he'd wait for psg?

??
you think United are at Evertons level and PSG are higher.
Last night they played Barca in front of 75k fans after knocking PSG out of the CL.

If Gana wants to stay, great, if not, he's been playing well and we should get 30 mil for an ageing midfielder.
It's not like he's running his contract down.
Brands will find a suitable younger replacement.

 

[Baines' left foot]

Why are people talking as if him going is a done deal? Anyone got a credible link?

 

[Kaiser Soysauce]

It is still replacing our best DM with an unknown, replacing someone that is a key part (maybe even the most key part) to how he play and replacing him with a younger version. It's like people believe that you can just sell a player and immediately replace him with a player of the same, or better standard; and it's all done easily.

That's football mate. There's always "unknowns" out there. I never said it was easy, just necessary.