Handball ref? Ref?

[Rodebaard]

I know this could go in the VAR thread, but it's irritaing me that I don't know what the rules are with handball. When I was a nipper, and it could be my memory is playing tricks on me, if it struck your arm it was handball. Tough luck. I have a hazy memory of discussion around accidental vs non-accidental, but that might have been later.
I'm obviously biased, but I don't understand how that wasn't handball last night. Because he knocked it towards goal, because there was a goal-line review? I know that there is an element of subjectivity in relation to whether a foul is a foul and I can accept that (e.g. not sure about Godfrey's yellow card, but fine, I can see why it was given as a free kick). But surely if that had hit his hand anywhere else on the pitch that was handball? What's the rules yo? I feel like I'm watching something like ice-hockey or basketball and there is a foul but I don't know why, it's annoying. Help a middle-aged simpleton to understand please

 

[Eggs]

….not sure anybody knows the rules but from what I read, last nights incident wasn’t even referred to VAR.

it might be more about the club involved than the rule.

 

[b-rad]

The relevant part of the laws:

It is an offence if a player:
(...)

• touches the ball with their hand/arm when it has made their body unnaturally bigger. A player is considered to have made their body unnaturally bigger when the position of their hand/arm is not a consequence of, or justifiable by, the player’s body movement for that specific situation.

(...)

In the case of Fulham, they are interpreting the arm to be in a natural position. The argument is that he wasn't trying to make his body bigger as he probably wasn't expecting it to come down off the bar towards him.

In the case of Onana the other week, they have probably said that Onana knew (or hoped) the ball was coming at him and having his arm up like that was unnatural and making his body bigger. The problem is that if you can probably take images from every single game and see players in exactly the same position. Ok, so the ball doesn't hit their arm usually, but it IS natural for that specific situation.

 

[cronullasharks]

They were crapping on in commentary that he didn't have time to get his hand out of the way. Now, their very quick to give them normally if a cross is drilled in and the players arms are not tucked into the body basically.

Chalk this one up as another one we've been dudded out of IMO.

 

[LocalNative]

….not sure anybody knows the rules but from what I read, last nights incident wasn’t even looked at by VAR.

it might be more about the club involved than the rule.

Commentary team I was listening to said a VAR check was in progress and then check was complete.

I actually don’t think it was a pen tbh, the ball was bouncing away from the goal and by hitting his arm it was almost an own goal but for his teammates clearance (almost certain I previously heard Howard Webb mention that trajectory of the ball is taken into consideration).

If the ball was goalbound and hit him, sure, but I’d have been annoyed if that went against us.

 

[ToffeeTim]

Another nonsense decision

We got constantly told the Onana one was a certain penalty (which it wasn't - it was only given because it was City), so why on earth should we take anyone seriously when they say this one wasn't a penalty.

Consistency is now irrelevant in this total joke of a competition.

 

[LocalNative]

Another nonsense decision

We got constantly told the Onana one was a certain penalty (which it wasn't - it was only given because it was City), so why on earth should we take anyone seriously when they say this one wasn't a penalty.

One was goal-bound the other wasn’t?

 

[Blue Willy]

The Harrison one was a bit iffy too, and probably would have gone the way of a sly six team - playing the bal but taking the man etc. We have far too many bad shouts for it to be unlucky. It stinks. Those extra points we would have almost certainly attained/negated from half of those decisions would have out us 3 or 4 points above Luton already - and Im sure more iffy decisions are yet to come.

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

We need to go back to the days of ‘deliberate’ hand ball only as an offence. It takes away nearly all the ambiguity. Unless a player deliberately moves his hand towards the ball, no matter where or what position his arm is in, it’s not a foul

 

[Rodebaard]

Commentary team I was listening to said a VAR check was in progress and then check was complete.

I actually don’t think it was a pen tbh, the ball was bouncing away from the goal and by hitting his arm it was almost an own goal but for his teammates clearance (almost certain I previously heard Howard Webb mention that trajectory of the ball is taken into consideration).

If the ball was goalbound and hit him, sure, but I’d have been annoyed if that went against us.

Yeah, I did think there might be something to do with him knocking it goal direction. But I guess you could argue that if he hadn't not-handled it then it might have gone towards one of our players

 

[ToffeeTim]

One was goal-bound the other wasn’t?

Not in the rules as far as I know

Certainly not a consideration when they give handball for blocked crosses into the box

I dont want these incidents to be given handball but it's ludicrous that we get them given against us and then get to February without a single penalty in our favour

 

[LocalNative]

Yeah, I did think there might be something to do with him knocking it goal direction. But I guess you could argue that if he hadn't not-handled it then it might have gone towards one of our players

Looking at it back none of our shithouses react to it and Fulham player is next in line behind Robinson.

 

[Rodebaard]

The relevant part of the laws:

It is an offence if a player:
(...)

• touches the ball with their hand/arm when it has made their body unnaturally bigger. A player is considered to have made their body unnaturally bigger when the position of their hand/arm is not a consequence of, or justifiable by, the player’s body movement for that specific situation.

(...)

In the case of Fulham, they are interpreting the arm to be in a natural position. The argument is that he wasn't trying to make his body bigger as he probably wasn't expecting it to come down off the bar towards him.

In the case of Onana the other week, they have probably said that Onana knew (or hoped) the ball was coming at him and having his arm up like that was unnatural and making his body bigger. The problem is that if you can probably take images from every single game and see players in exactly the same position. Ok, so the ball doesn't hit their arm usually, but it IS natural for that specific situation.

I guess the problem with Michael Keane is that he is generally a bit unnatural, so if it goes anywhere near his arm it is always a pen

 

[Rodebaard]

Looking at it back none of our shithouses react to it and Fulham player is next in line behind Robinson.

Yeah, sounds about right. Can't remember whether our lightening strike attack were on their toes or not

 

[Number_25]

To be honest, NEA.

The standard of refereeing in the "World's greatest league" is a disgrace, and we're on the end of it every week now. All we can do is focus on our own game and get out of this ourselves.