Financial Fair Play investigation

[WestStandLower]

In practical terms, staying in the premier league whilst joining a closed shop european competition, was surely not realistic.

It probably wasn’t but that was where matters were at that point in time.

The worry is at some point in time there will be another attempt at forming a ESL but for those that are firmly against it and have articulated their objections around the area of promotion and relegation that a very easy one to solve.

It’s worth looking at how the 24/25 version of the champions league is structured. No longer group stages but 36 teams completing in one league.

New format for Champions League post-2024: Everything you need to know | UEFA Champions League

The 2024/25 edition of the UEFA Champions League will follow a new format. We explain what will change, what will stay the same, what it means for fans and how it impacts UEFA's other club competitions.

www.uefa.com

Before you know it this format will probably change to two leagues and ping by a back door you have the ESL

 

[WestStandLower]

Isn't this just semantics over terminology?

They can dress it up how they like, it was a payment resulting from Improper conduct due to greed!

It was small change and actually not that relevant to us overall but it was a penalty/fine/goodwill gesture etc etc


As I say its meaningless in the scheme of what we are discussing and its pretty boring as far as Everton are concerned and yet I keep allowing myself to get dragged into it. It was not enough of a penalty for bringing disrepute into the game but a game already filled with dishonour and a lack of integrity what can we expect!

To a degree it is semantics but the relevance to this whole debate is that simply put a fine would follow a charge and that didn’t happen, perhaps it should have but it didn’t therefore you can’t look at the outcome of the whole ESL debacle and draw any comfort, solace or indeed a clue as to what sanction will follow , if proven, a PL charge

 

[mahermi1]

Sorry but my position is supported by the facts of the matter. Yours, understandably, is emotive

Had the PL been in a position to charge the 6 clubs with all the current and at the time issues of governance and regulation then they would have done so.

Do you agree with the three clubs suing us as well mate..

 

[davek]

They didn’t pay any fine.

How d'you mean they didn't pay?

 

[peteblue]

How d'you mean they didn't pay?

I think he means it wasn’t a fine, merely a voluntary and generous offer to help others by the six…….

 

[davek]

Not seeing any massive shouts in the media about not punishing the fans in our case, such as those for the scab 6 when they tried to kill football - let’s see what noise there is about city’s ffp issues and punishing their fans?

The media - especially the press - have used the last two years to position Everton as a club that deserves no hearing. We're the club that spent cash and did worse than nothing with it and therefore - having tried to get above our station to challenge the existing elite - have to be taken down a peg or three.

They hate this club, all of them, apart from a few surly outliers like Samuelson.

Right now they've got teams of reporters busily and gleefully preparing stories about us getting hammered by the PL Commission ready to publish there moment any decision is officially made. They live to dance on our grave.

 

[davek]

I think he means it wasn’t a fine, merely a voluntary and generous offer to help others by the six…….

Of course it was a fine. There was no option to not paying it.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

The premier league is winning the gamesmanship clearly. Drop a ridiculous "We want 12 points" rumor and you have fans falling overthemselves to be okay with 6 points. Classic conditioning, drop a big number so that they will be okay with the lower number they wouldnt have ever been okay with.

Even 1 point is not okay, its absurd, and dont let them work you over like that.

We will be victim of circumstance some of it by those who ran the club at the time, Owner Chairmen Directors, this where in my opinion the blame actullay falls and it should be them who are punished. However, thats not how a capitalism system works. Also and importantly, the EPL is desperate to see off any state regulation and will want to be seen to manage its own affairs.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

I think he means it wasn’t a fine, merely a voluntary and generous offer to help others by the six…….

Generous by whose measure not those clubs. And was £22 million collective or each?

 

[Yarrgh]

I think he means it wasn’t a fine, merely a voluntary and generous offer to help others by the six…….

Perhaps we should offer to pay a generous 3+ million to grassroots football as a resolution to all this?

 

[PhilEFC]

The scab six were not planning to leave the EPL but the UEFA competitions, or did you not realise
that? The Super League matches were.supposed to be.played during mid-week slots when European games are.played.

Hence nothing really to do with the EPL, no rules broken and a 'gesture of goodwill' paid for lower leagues and not to the EPL.

Pretty weak that. It was creating a closed shop money making racket where teams outside of would never be able to join, tearing the competitive heart out of football in this country.

Talk about have your cake and eat it.

 

[WestStandLower]

How d'you mean they didn't pay?

When this all kicked off this is what the PL said

“The actions of a few clubs cannot be allowed to create such division and disruption. We are determined to establish the truth of what happened and hold those clubs accountable for their decisions and actions”

That can not be read any other way than they were looking to charge the clubs. Holding the club’s accountable would mean the PL were looking for far more than just a jesture of goodwill.


Now read the statement from both the PL and FA

“The six clubs involved in proposals to form a European Super League have today acknowledged once again that their actions were a mistake, and have reconfirmed their commitment to the Premier League and the future of the English game.

They have wholeheartedly apologised to their fans, fellow clubs, the Premier League and The FA.

As a gesture of goodwill, the clubs have collectively agreed to make a contribution of £22million, which will go towards the good of the game, including new investment in support for fans, grassroots football and community programmes.

Furthermore, the clubs have agreed to support rule changes so that any similar actions in the future would lead to a 30-point deduction”

Now I am not legally trained but even to my untrained eye the wording is both deliberate and specific there is absolutely no mention of admission that they broke any rule . The PL charge clubs for many things and if they could have done so and been confident in pursuit of those charges then without doubt a charge against each club would have been filed

 

[jazzy]

When this all kicked off this is what the PL said

“The actions of a few clubs cannot be allowed to create such division and disruption. We are determined to establish the truth of what happened and hold those clubs accountable for their decisions and actions”

That can not be read any other way than they were looking to charge the clubs. Holding the club’s accountable would mean the PL were looking for far more than just a jesture of goodwill.


Now read the statement from both the PL and FA

“The six clubs involved in proposals to form a European Super League have today acknowledged once again that their actions were a mistake, and have reconfirmed their commitment to the Premier League and the future of the English game.

They have wholeheartedly apologised to their fans, fellow clubs, the Premier League and The FA.

As a gesture of goodwill, the clubs have collectively agreed to make a contribution of £22million, which will go towards the good of the game, including new investment in support for fans, grassroots football and community programmes.

Furthermore, the clubs have agreed to support rule changes so that any similar actions in the future would lead to a 30-point deduction”

Now I am not legally trained but even to my untrained eye the wording is both deliberate and specific there is absolutely no mention of admission that they broke any rule . The PL charge clubs for many things and if they could have done so and been confident in pursuit of those charges then without doubt a charge against each club would have been filed

You are correct.

They indicated an intention to join a league when it can into existence.

That was not an offence according to the rules.

When / if they had joined a properly constituted alternative league that would have been an offence.

It sounds like semantics but actually isn't .

And yes , I am legally trained.

 

[davek]

When this all kicked off this is what the PL said “The actions of a few clubs cannot be allowed to create such division and disruption. We are determined to establish the truth of what happened and hold those clubs accountable for their decisions and actions”
“The six clubs involved in proposals to form a European Super League have today acknowledged once again that their actions were a mistake, and have reconfirmed their commitment to the Premier League and the future of the English game.
They have wholeheartedly apologised to their fans, fellow clubs, the Premier League and The FA.
As a gesture of goodwill, the clubs have collectively agreed to make a contribution of £22million, which will go towards the good of the game, including new investment in support for fans, grassroots football and community programmes.

Furthermore, the clubs have agreed to support rule changes so that any similar actions in the future would lead to a 30-point deduction”

Now I am not legally trained but even to my untrained eye the wording is both deliberate and specific there is absolutely no mention of admission that they broke any rule . The PL charge clubs for many things and if they could have done so and been confident in pursuit of those charges then without doubt a charge against each club would have been filed

Call it what you want: a fine/settlement/contribution, but they agreed to pay that as the price for not receiving anything harsher.

In other words, as the PL statement said: they were "made accountable" for their actions.

To make your case you would have to persuade me and others that they had an option of paying no cash out and the PL would simply have allowed them to do that and not take other action. That is simply not the case.

 

[Market trader]

It was obviously aimed at UEFA and their inability to cope with the Nation-State football clubs. (The unresolved case of Man City?) The EPL could have continued with the scab six clubs competing to win the Premiership but not entering the UEFA competions.

Anyway, it didn't happen. Stopped by the fans, as was appropriate.